Standardize before you automate: The secret to fleet efficiency with Nate Johnson

Nate Johnson on fleet efficiency

[00:00:00] Nate Johnson: The trifecta of people, process, and technology drives everything in our industry, and it follows that exact hierarchy. If you have great people, an okay process, and crappy technology, you can still operate a good business. But if you have crappy people, great processes, and great technology, you are in serious trouble.

[00:00:19] Todd Waldron: Welcome back to Behind the Freight. On today’s episode, we’re joined by Nate Johnson, CEO of GLCS and co-founder of FR8MVMT. Nate has spent years helping carriers and brokers modernize their technology, improve operations, and untangle the messy realities of trucking software integrations and IT systems.

Before founding GLCS, Nate worked across transportation operations and consulting, building a myriad of experience in the trucking and transportation industry. This background gave him firsthand experience with the operational pressure points that carriers and brokers deal with every day.

Currently, he is working with fleets and logistics companies to help them make smarter technology decisions without overcomplicating their business. Today, we’re going to talk about how carriers and brokers can evaluate technology without getting overwhelmed, which seems nearly impossible in today’s environment.

We will also discuss how to identify when the real issue is the process rather than the software, alongside the biggest mistakes that technology companies, brokers, and carriers make while integrating systems across the logistics industry.

[00:01:23] Nate Johnson: Thank you, Todd, I appreciate it. We flipped the chair, so that’s the first official intro from Todd Waldron. I definitely appreciate being on the show.

[00:01:32] Todd Waldron: Absolutely, it is always great to have a good friend on the program. I am incredibly grateful for you being here. Recently, I saw a post sharing that GLCS just celebrated its ten-year anniversary.

You shared a note on LinkedIn about the company starting with just one customer, one commitment, and a core belief that if you take care of people, good things will naturally happen. I love hearing that story and learning about the legacy of GLCS and how it all started.

How does that philosophy relate to the human nature you observe in logistics? Behind every technology issue, is it ultimately driven by an underlying people issue, and how do you see those two forces coinciding in your experience?

[00:02:12] Nate Johnson: The trifecta of people, process, and technology drives everything in our industry, and it operates strictly within that hierarchy. If you have great people, an okay process, and crappy technology, you still have a viable business. But if you have crappy people, great processes, and great technology, you’re in trouble.

People are the true foundation of this business. There are a lot of discussions today about how companies can reduce staff or automate positions, and navigating the reality of those changes can be very difficult for a fleet operator. Ultimately, any software solution out there today is merely a reflection of your people and your processes.

The baseline of success always comes back to that human element. In the anniversary statement I shared yesterday marking ten years of GLCS, I circled back to a core truth: no matter what happens, it always comes down to a business owner asking how to make their people more productive, happier, and how to make their daily jobs easier.

As a solution provider today, if you are not keeping the user’s daily experience at the forefront of your mind, you are going to struggle and you are not going to do well. That philosophy has been the core of our business since day one. It’s hard to believe it has already been ten years; I don’t know where the time went.

I think when I first started this business, I still had completely black hair, so I am definitely not looking like that anymore.

[00:03:35] John Howland: Yeah, this industry does crazy things to all of our hair. I’m getting those little white hairs popping through on my head as well, so I completely get it.

[00:03:41] Nate Johnson: Next year actually marks my thirtieth year working in the logistics industry, too.

[00:03:44] John Howland: You’re going to be completely white-haired before your fortieth year for sure. Absolutely, you’re in trouble.

[00:03:46] Nate Johnson: I’m only 35, so that means I must have started working when I was five years old. I honestly don’t know where all the gray came from.

[00:03:54] Todd Waldron: Oh, yeah.

[00:03:56] John Howland: I believe it. All right, I also saw a post, and I think I’ve heard you publicly state, that the trucking industry currently needs an intervention. It seems like we’re deeply struggling to get younger folks into this industry to start driving commercial trucks.

Why do you think trucking still suffers from such a massive branding problem, despite being so obviously important and relevant to literally everything happening in the global economy?

[00:04:20] Nate Johnson: I’ve been saying this my entire career, so this is nothing new. It truly requires an intervention because we are three decades into this dilemma and still haven’t resolved it. Lots of executives worry about what their office staff has to do, what impacts the back office, and what makes those teams happy.

However, we truly have a problem creating good, sustainable jobs for our drivers. That has gotten a little bit better over the years, but thirty years ago when I first started driving, and for the next fifteen years managing fleets, we always tried to create driving jobs that we would want to do ourselves.

There is a noticeable gap now. We’ve seen the traditional over-the-road driver segment reduce in size, but the core expectations for that role have also changed significantly. Twenty years ago, being out on the road for three weeks straight versus being home weekly was acceptable, whereas today, drivers want to be home every other night.

Regarding the intervention in general, the average age of a commercial driver is not going down; it is actively going up. Organizations like Project 61 have identified a major issue with the average age and life expectancy of professional drivers. The average age is in the late forties, and the average lifespan is just 61.

Whether we call it a driver shortage or an operational asset issue, it doesn’t matter. We need younger people behind the wheel, and we must create highly desirable jobs that make them want to go out and do this hard work.

Today, when you graduate high school, there is no direct path to becoming a commercial truck driver. You have to wait and do something else for three years before you’re legally allowed to get behind the wheel of an interstate truck, which is a major hurdle for anyone wanting to take that career path.

[00:06:16] Todd Waldron: That reminds me of an interview the Minnesota Trucking Association recently conducted with Byron Buxton, the Minnesota Twins All-Star. I know you’re an avid Twins fan and season ticket holder, and you appreciate the tie-in to technology.

In the article, he recalls how his dad was a truck driver and remembers those long stints away from the house. It shows how much expectations for home time, work-life balance, and family have evolved. I thought you’d get a kick out of that article because it relates directly to your point.

[00:06:50] Nate Johnson: What’s funny is I just learned a lot of personal details about him over the last month or two, and then the MTA came out with that magazine featuring him right on the cover. When Buxton is running around the bases after a home run, his celebration imitates pulling an air horn in honor of his dad.

A number of other Twins players do the exact same thing, so it’s a neat tribute. I was paying close attention last Sunday when I was at the stadium, but he had a tough day at the plate. Normally, he’s good for a big play when I’m there in the stands.

[00:07:30] Todd Waldron: Yeah, no doubt about it, that’s great. Talk to us a bit about FR8MVMT. I know you focus heavily on this initiative, not merely as a traditional conference or another networking event, but as a true industry movement.

Tell us how that came about, how it has evolved, and your core focus on bringing professionals together across the logistics sector.

[00:07:49] Nate Johnson: FR8MVMT came about after Jenny Malafrina and I put it together a couple of years ago. The idea actually sat with us for a year before we fully crafted the concept of just getting people from the industry together without any corporate pretense.

We wanted to naturally gather, either to augment a major conference or just to connect locally. We host monthly gatherings here in Minnesota, and we pop up in different locations throughout the country. Last year, we did ten or twelve visits, though we are doing slightly fewer this year outside our local events.

It’s essentially a grassroots networking group to pull people together appropriately, and it has been highly successful. There is a lot of interest from companies that want to connect in cities like Atlanta, where there hasn’t been a great medium for it, and the discussions we have are fascinating.

Our largest event to date was held on the sidelines of the Manifest conference this year, drawing about 500 people. It was centered around Venture 53, and they actually awarded three million dollars in cash at the event. Having 500 people gather and talk for three hours was incredible.

Everyone involved came back and said it was a great experience and wanted to do it again next year. We’ve held events in Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, Kansas City, Minneapolis, and Denver, anywhere it makes sense to pull a group together.

The movement behind it is simply to get off the keyboard and get out in front of real people. We don’t want a virtual experience; we want to get people connected face-to-face. It mirrors what we used to do after work back in the day, heading to a local spot where logistics people gathered.

[00:09:48] Todd Waldron: Didn’t that happen a lot more back in the day? I can certainly attest to the Manifest event; it was awesome. I’ve been to a few other FR8MVMT events and really enjoyed them.

I remember growing up in the brokerage space, and it was much more common to go out afterward and develop deep friendships with the team. I don’t know why that social dynamic changed over time, but it’s a great call-out.

[00:10:10] Nate Johnson: That’s 100% true, and that is exactly what inspired this initiative. I think COVID completely killed that social aspect of business networking. While it’s starting to make a comeback, our very first event was two or three years ago here in Minneapolis, where we just dipped our toe in the water.

We had about fifty people turn out, representing twenty to twenty-five different logistics companies. We had shippers, insurance professionals, trucking companies, and brokerages, just anyone who wanted to come out. The only event that didn’t do well was our Christmas gathering.

You were there, Todd, so you remember that. We quickly learned that you don’t try to run an event in mid-December in the middle of Minnesota.

[00:10:46] Todd Waldron: It’s a little cold out there, so there is definitely a lot working against you weather-wise.

[00:10:51] Nate Johnson: I agree. As an industry, we need to remain social and meet face-to-face with one another, because a lot of this face time directly enhances business. While that isn’t the sole context behind the movement, facilitating these connections helps people realize how they can support each other.

[00:11:08] John Howland: I remember the early 2000s when I was at Swift Transportation. I literally remember major business deals getting completed on the back of cocktail napkins and over poker games. That all seems to have changed quite a bit over the last twenty-five years, but those truly were the good old days.

[00:11:30] Nate Johnson: Bars, poker games, and golf courses are all utilized far less than they used to be. Think about how every major conference used to host a massive golf tournament right before the event, whereas very few do that now.

[00:11:42] Todd Waldron: Did you lose as many poker games as you do sales deals, Howland?

[00:11:45] John Howland: Dude, I am completely undefeated, okay?

[00:11:48] Todd Waldron: I’m just curious.

[00:11:48] Nate Johnson: Undefeated at losing, you mean?

[00:11:50] John Howland: Yeah, you know, Todd, way to just derail me completely, thank you. I’m actually going to switch gears because I don’t like where this conversation is heading right now. I want to talk about technology so we can get back on track.

When we look at trade shows lately, the sheer amount of vendors, technologies, and chaos around different platforms and providers out there is overwhelming. Nate, in my eyes, you’re a true guru when it comes to transportation technology.

When somebody comes up to you and asks, “Hey, what is the best TMS, or what software should I be using?” what do you tell them?

[00:12:27] Nate Johnson: There is no specific answer or single easy button there. I always ask follow-up questions regarding their operational size. If they’re a ten-truck operator or a five-person brokerage, I’m going to point them toward one or two specific products, wish them the best, and tell them to call us if they need help.

Those hyper-focused small market products are few and far between. If you’re a ten-truck operator thinking you need an enterprise TMS, there are very few options in the market tailored for that. Most of the time, the questions come from mid-market or enterprise-level organizations.

For them, there is no single defined answer. You need to thoroughly understand the internal details of the business. Anyone who just gives a blanket software recommendation isn’t representing you well as a partner or customer. There is simply a lot going on right now.

At one point, we were tracking close to 900 different TMS solutions, though only 30 to 40 were actually viable or applicable. We faced a similar situation tracking an absurd number of ELD vendors back in 2016 and 2017. We frequently hit these cycles where waves of tech emerge.

Right now, every software vendor on the planet claims to be an AI provider. They are targeting millions of distinct use cases, and not all AI is created equal. When you mix that with TMS and asset maintenance, which is another huge focus right now, it becomes highly confusing.

If you’re a 100-truck or 500-truck operator, staying on top of this is nearly impossible on your own. If you make uneducated choices, you’ll look back and regret how you handled it. Yet, the core difference between today and twenty years ago is very small.

Companies made the same fundamental mistakes back then; there were just fewer people paying close attention. IT used to be a very small function rather than the foundation of your business. Today, as I often tell people, every logistics firm is a technology company that moves freight.

That applies to everyone today. If you don’t view yourself as a technology company moving freight, there must be something highly niche about your specific business model.

[00:14:53] Todd Waldron: That’s an interesting juxtaposition: technology versus operational processes. Companies often purchase technology when their internal operational processes aren’t sound enough to support it, even though the process is the root cause of the issue.

How do you navigate that? When someone comes to you looking for a software solution to fix a specific problem, how do you dive in to uncover if there are underlying operational process issues causing the trouble?

[00:15:27] Nate Johnson: We take a few different approaches, but any successful technology initiative starts with standardization. You have to standardize the process and the people first, ensuring everything is documented to some level before introducing new software.

From there, you can look to automate or enhance. If you haven’t standardized the sequence of events, you cannot layer in technology effectively. The proper workflow is always to standardize, automate, and then improve the digital footprint.

Prior to that, you must deeply understand your current state. You would be surprised how many companies think they understand their internal processes, but when you dive in, you find they are actually taking an entirely different course of action.

Understanding what you’re currently doing and building a solid set of future requirements is a massive differentiator. Ideally, you can hand those requirements to a vendor who will collaborate with you, but you also need to know which vendors are legitimate.

One of our first vetting questions for any AI solution is to ask about their data security. Nine out of ten emerging AI tools have not built adequate security guardrails. If they can prove they are SOC 2 certified or actively pursuing it, we will engage.

If they don’t have that compliance, we probably won’t even talk to them. Would an average 100-truck fleet know to ask that question, or are they going to filter through twenty different vendors and waste ten days trying to figure it out?

[00:17:08] John Howland: That is excellent advice. You talked about broken workflows and understanding different companies’ processes. Where do you feel the biggest operational bottlenecks lie within modern carriers and brokerages?

[00:17:24] Nate Johnson: There are two parts to that: where the biggest bottlenecks are, and what is the most impactful to address when deploying a new solution. The back office frequently suffers because the industry tends to hire hard workers for front-office execution roles who aren’t process-oriented.

A dispatch operation might have people willing to work sixteen hours a day, but asking them to rigidly follow a structured process can be nearly impossible. As a result, the back office inherits wildly inaccurate data and is forced to piece it together.

By back office, I largely mean invoicing and settlements. There is massive potential to optimize these areas by leveraging AI solutions today. Because there are only so many ways data can be wrong, software can systematically fix those errors.

When auditing an organization, we look at the back office first. We ask how they manage fuel, what they are doing from an optimization standpoint, and whether they possess automated tools for freight selection and capacity matching.

While most companies have basic tools or don’t require advanced optimization yet, almost every company can benefit from automating the back office. The largest single bottleneck remains unstandardized processes, which directly equate to dirty data.

Clean data will be a massive differentiator moving forward. We are starting to see this play out clearly. Look at an enterprise like C.H. Robinson, which has jumped far ahead of the market from an automation standpoint.

Conversely, you have companies with zero automation, and that competitive gap is huge. I once walked into an organization with highly advanced automation, and the next day visited one with absolutely none. The operational contrast was stark.

While I can’t publicly detail the financials of both organizations, I guarantee you there is a significant bottom-line impact separating those two businesses based on automation alone.

[00:19:45] John Howland: Looking at those two contrasting examples, what stops companies from making a change? When they ignore advice or fail to correct operational inefficiencies, what are the primary roadblocks?

Is it the sheer capital cost, the fact that they’ve maintained the same culture for so long, legacy technology limitations, or something else entirely? What are your thoughts there?

[00:20:11] Nate Johnson: It’s a combination of those factors. Frequently, companies rely on legacy systems that are incredibly difficult to integrate with, and they don’t know how to untangle the technology. Ultimately, however, it usually comes down to a poor culture fit.

The largest failures with modern technology result from a failure to manage culture change and project management. It represents a massive percentage of tech failures. You can mitigate this by mapping out comprehensive requirements ahead of time.

You must clearly understand exactly why you are purchasing a product and get your front-line team bought in before you sign a contract. A lot of companies do the exact opposite: they see a product all over the news, buy it impulsively, and then scratch their heads when it fails.

If they had thoroughly vetted their requirements first, they likely would have realized they should never have bought it, or that they needed to implement major process changes prior to deployment.

Most modern technology platforms targeting our segment of the logistics industry are built by vendors who deeply understand the space and can deliver real value, especially those chapters established enough to advertise broadly. You just have to be intentional about the selection process.

[00:21:46] Todd Waldron: I am fascinated by the rapid evolution of transportation. When we first started in the industry, technological advancement meant taking a manual fax and integrating it into the TMS so you could click a single button to send it, or receiving a fax directly into your email inbox.

It was a much simpler time. Today, transportation companies and drivers face intense pressures, including complex new regulations, shifting market dynamics, escalating operational costs, and highly fragmented systems across shippers and carriers.

We’re also seeing an increased speed of connectivity through APIs. As you peel that back, do you ever wish we could return to those simpler days, even though you make a living solving these modern technology challenges?

How do you manage all the external dependencies, shifting shipper expectations, and modern complexities without getting overwhelmed? Where exactly is this runaway train heading?

[00:23:06] Nate Johnson: That’s a big question, Todd. I was actually having a similar conversation recently. I ran a fleet until we sold it in 2006. Since then, my team and I have worked with over 2,000 trucking companies and brokerages across my various roles prior to and during GLCS.

We didn’t sell that fleet in 2006 because we were struggling; we were highly successful. Interestingly, most fleets today cannot match the level of automation we had established twenty years ago. Most recent technology revolutions have been driven by compliance mandates.

A prime example is the ELD mandate about a decade ago. Prior to that, there were still major fleets that lacked basic satellite or cellular tracking on their trucks as late as 2016, which is wild to think about.

We have introduced a massive amount of noise and cost since then, but has the industry actually improved its on-time percentages, eliminated fraud, or truly optimized operations? I think we’ve mostly just generated noise.

We constantly adjust hours-of-service regulations, which requires a tremendous amount of development work to update software systems. If I could go all the way back and prevent the invention of the pager and the cell phone, I think the world would be a whole lot better.

[00:25:06] John Howland: I remember the days when a check call literally meant a driver going to a truck stop with an envelope or a plastic bag full of coins to call the office and check in. Everything has changed since then, but those truly were the good old days.

[00:25:29] Nate Johnson: We didn’t implement widespread satellite tracking until around 2003. Before that, operations relied on drivers calling in exactly before 10:00 AM and 4:00 PM. Fleet managers tracked those calls manually to measure phone time.

By 2006, the technology existed to automatically populate a driver’s information the moment they called, alongside real-time fuel data, imaging, and early OCR. Today, we are taking it a step further with AI to streamline back-office automation.

Eliminating manual paperwork and optimizing fuel remain some of the highest ROI initiatives in the business. When I say the industry needs a reality check, this is exactly what I mean: we were solving these exact same operational challenges twenty years ago, just with less noise.

Customer requirements are driving a lot of the current complexity. Shippers now demand status updates within fifteen minutes of an event, and freight bidding platforms require near-instantaneous rate responses.

Some customers even demand real-time tracking updates every couple of minutes, which scales up to hundreds of thousands of data status updates per month for a single account.

[00:27:00] Todd Waldron: For a long time, the baseline standard was simply delivering on-time and in-full. Then it evolved into strict EDI compliance, tracking precise check-in and check-out times, real-time visibility eras, and routing guide compliance. The operational demands just continue to compound.

[00:27:16] Nate Johnson: The transactional cost of this data volume is insane. You still have legacy EDI vendors charging by the character or message, despite customer tracking requirements scaling astronomically higher. That friction naturally drives the shift toward modern APIs.

This sparks the daily debate we navigate: is it better to deploy a flexible, cloud-based SaaS solution with APIs, or maintain an on-premise system that allows for deep, custom code changes? There isn’t a single right or wrong answer for the industry as a whole, but there is a correct path for each specific organization.

As APIs mature, they must evolve to become completely all-encompassing, especially when bridging the gap between mature legacy software and modern applications. Once legacy platforms modernize their tech stacks, a good portion of the single-point software products currently flooding the market will disappear.

There is no massive wave forcing the mid-market to abandon their core TMS or asset maintenance software overnight because their custom requirements remain vital. If a new platform can reduce costs while checking all those boxes, that’s wonderful, but many fleets aren’t finding a safe landing spot.

[00:28:40] John Howland: I want to make sure we don’t run out of time before hitting my favorite segment: the lightning round. We’ve had guests who get so long-winded that we only manage to ask a single question. These are designed for rapid-fire, top-of-mind answers and quick explanations.

[00:29:04] Nate Johnson: I don’t know if I’m fully ready, but let’s do this.

[00:29:07] John Howland: I get to ask the fun one. Lightning round question number one: if you were an animal tasked with getting behind the wheel to drive a commercial truck, what animal would you be, and what animal makes the absolute best driver?

[00:29:23] Nate Johnson: If I were an animal behind the wheel, I’d probably be a gorilla, just a big guy out there handling the truck. The best driver would naturally possess the integrity and presence of a lion, serving as the true king of the road.

Interestingly, a lot of people in the industry jokingly imply that most drivers behave like hyenas. In reality, the vast majority of drivers are wonderful, hard-working people, and it is an amazing industry to be a part of.

[00:29:58] John Howland: I totally agree.

[00:30:00] Todd Waldron: Finish this sentence: “The freight industry would be meaningfully better when…”

[00:30:04] Nate Johnson: …when it stops changing so rapidly. We are moving so fast right now that it’s difficult for operators to keep up. If you maintain a strict, precise control over your operating costs, you are likely doing okay.

We just survived the worst market downturn of my career, and it lasted significantly longer than any of us anticipated. The market is shifting again, but everyone remains tentative. Our old industry adage was: “If you don’t like trucking or the supply chain, just wait until tomorrow.”

Over the last five years, however, tomorrow has frequently brought changes that I like less. We simply need the market volatility to slow down so we can get our hands around this industry again.

[00:30:50] John Howland: All right, Nate, two more. What is one thing carriers should stop doing immediately when making technology decisions?

[00:30:58] Nate Johnson: They must stop buying emotionally; that is the single largest mistake. As I emphasized earlier, you must deeply analyze your core operational requirements. Understand exactly what you are purchasing, why you are purchasing it, and the specific problem you are trying to solve.

A lot of operators buy software simply because they want new tech, leading to costly missed purchases. Making a poor technology purchase doesn’t just drain your cash. While brokerages are nimble and can pivot quickly, a bad rollout in a trucking fleet has severe consequences.

If you deploy a flawed ELD or TMS platform, it frustrates your drivers and sparks costly turnover. Industry statistics show that switching core systems can trigger up to a 10% spike in driver turnover, making it vital to ensure a proper operational fit before buying.

[00:31:56] Todd Waldron: Awesome. Who is someone in the trucking industry doing great work that people should follow or learn from?

[00:32:03] Nate Johnson: There are a lot of great leaders out there, though I think you should probably start by following me! Jokes aside, the American Trucking Associations (ATA) often gets a lot of pushback from smaller market fleets or specific operators.

However, we have to look at their work through an 80/20 rule and recognize that they are effectively representing the industry as a whole. Following the legislative and regulatory updates happening in Washington right now is extremely important for every fleet.

If regulatory targets would stop shifting for a moment, operators could wrap their heads around compliance and focus on becoming more efficient. The past five years have proven that well-controlled companies can remain profitable even in tough environments.

But if the target continues to shift, maintaining your margin becomes increasingly difficult. We have to accept 80% of an association’s unified effort, even if we don’t see eye-to-eye 20% of the time. Keep an eye on the ATA; their advocacy efforts on pending bills impact all of us.

[00:33:29] Todd Waldron: Great answer. Way to bring the thunder to the lightning round.

[00:33:33] John Howland: That is a great line right there, Todd. Nate, it has been an absolute honor having you on the show. We really appreciate the work you’re doing for this industry, alongside your excellent practical advice.

I’m John, alongside Todd, and this is Behind the Freight. We’re checking out, but Nate, thank you so much.

[00:33:51] Nate Johnson: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you, guys.

[00:33:53] Todd Waldron: If today’s episode helped you think differently about your operation, please share it with someone in your network who needs to hear it.

[00:33:59] John Howland: And if you’re looking for tools to help keep your trucks rolling, from finding quality loads to getting paid quicker, truckstop.com is here to help.

[00:34:08] Todd Waldron: Go visit truckstop.com to explore the load board, rate insights, and risk management solutions built specifically for carriers and brokers. Thanks for listening to us at Behind the Freight.

[00:34:19] Todd Waldron: Until next time, keep the wheels turning and the bad loads burning.