Episode 8: Building a people-first trucking company with Marina Ivanov

Marina Ivanov on building a people-first trucking company

[00:00:00] Marina Ivanov: My team had to look at me and say, “Marina, it’s okay to let a customer down. It’s okay to disappoint them because you’re hurting Apex. We can’t deadhead a hundred-something miles just to cover this customer load.”

[00:00:12] Todd Waldron: Welcome to Behind the Freight. On today’s episode, we’re joined by Marina Ivanov, CEO and co-founder of Apex Transit Solutions, a women-owned, asset-based logistics provider.

Marina grew up in trucking as the daughter of an owner-operator and has helped build Apex across operations, safety, HR planning, pricing, and sales.

Today, we’re going to talk about building a transportation company from the ground up, leading as a woman in a male-dominated industry, and what it takes to create resilient, people-first trucking businesses. Welcome, Marina.

[00:00:44] Marina Ivanov: I love it. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:47] Todd Waldron: Yes. I probably know a hundred women, but because of you, I know one of the “100 Women to Know in America.” I was so excited and encouraged to see that you had received that award.

What was that experience like, just to kick us off, and then I’ll jump into a few more questions?

[00:01:06] Marina Ivanov: That is great. No one has asked me that yet because it has been such a special honor to be featured. It is hard for me to talk about it because I don’t want to seem like I am humble-bragging about who I am.

Being named one of the “100 Women to Know” is an accomplishment that I am really proud of because of the caliber of women who were in that room.

I walked away so inspired just from interacting with those women, and I still can’t believe I’m one of them. It just doesn’t register just yet, so it’s really, really special. Thank you for asking about it.

[00:01:35] Todd Waldron: That’s awesome. So you grew up as the daughter of an owner-operator, right? Did you witness firsthand the realities and experiences of the trucking industry up close?

Was there ever a moment where you thought, “I’m definitely not getting into trucking,” before realizing that maybe this is where you belong?

[00:01:53] Marina Ivanov: Oh my gosh, so many! I think it was probably the time we were stuck in some random town in the US for three days because the truck broke down. It was me and my three sisters in the truck with my dad.

Looking back, it was actually fun. We just hung out at Walmart. We crossed the interstate, which I think is crazy that my dad let us do, and we just spent the whole day there.

We would buy some snacks and go sit in the garden section reading magazines and books. His truck was completely broken down, and I don’t know why my dad wouldn’t get us a hotel room.

We just stayed in that truck with no AC for three days because it broke down on Friday and they couldn’t fix it until Monday. I was like, “Yeah, I don’t want to be a part of this ever again.”

Other times, he would hide us when we were at a shipper and wanted to use the restroom. He’d say, “No, you’re going to have to hold it,” because he didn’t want the shippers to see kids in the truck.

Now I understand that as a driver, you want to look professional. But at the same time, it is a family business. You can have children with you, and it’s okay for them to be seen, heard, and have their basic needs cared for.

So those are a couple of little things, but there are probably a lot more.

[00:03:06] John Howland: Yeah. And I know you have children as well. Do you take them along and teach them the ropes to get them into the industry?

I saw your post about the Women in Trucking Conference where you missed your daughter’s birthday, and they did a big celebration for her, which was really cool. Do you take your kids out to learn the ropes with you?

[00:03:31] Marina Ivanov: Absolutely. They are here with me during the summer. There is a big conference room in our new office, and that’s their space. They spread out and sit in on the meetings.

If we have a meeting, they know what’s going on and know all the drama. They ask me things like, “Oh, what did that person do?” So it’s kind of fun.

My daughters are 14 and 10, so they are at a great age to really understand the company we are building and the legacy we want to leave behind.

They are very much interested. My older daughter even expressed that she wants to go to school for business and sales. She’s very open to it.

Eventually, during the summers, I want to take her on sales calls with me as well to see what it’s like. They are very much involved.

Last summer, I had them working for fifteen dollars an hour filing papers. Now that we’re completely digital, there’s not a lot of things to file, so I was trying to find other jobs for them.

[00:04:20] John Howland: That’s so cool. It’s interesting how their minds work. They’ll ask a question that seems simple to them, but it’s something I haven’t been asked before that makes me think about things a bit differently.

They are probably able to ask those questions like, “Hey Mom, why are they doing it this way?” and you’re like, “I don’t know, just because they do! Get out of here!” I deal with that same stuff, so that’s really cool.

[00:04:41] Todd Waldron: When I was running QCarriers, it was very similar. The company was founded by a truck driver in 1980 and was a very similar size to you guys.

The founder’s son is a buddy of mine. He grew up working in the maintenance shop when he was young, riding a go-kart around all the trucks.

It’s fascinating and interesting to see how that passion passes through generations as you go, for sure.

[00:05:02] Marina Ivanov: I love having them as part of the family business. They are such an integral part of it because they immerse themselves and learn from the ground up what it takes to build it.

We try so hard not to talk about work when we come home at dinner time, but it’s a big part of our lives, so they naturally understand it.

I think about second- and third-generation trucking companies. You often hear that by the time it hits the third or fourth generation, sometimes that passion wears off.

Having them involved and letting them see what it took to bring it back up will help them maintain that true feeling of ownership.

[00:05:36] Todd Waldron: That’s awesome. You co-founded Apex Transit Solutions nearly eleven years ago. Tell us about the original vision for the company when you first started and what that early experience was like.

Where is the company today, what are you doing in the current space, and what has transpired over those eleven years? A lot has changed externally, and internally I imagine things have shifted as well.

[00:06:00] Marina Ivanov: I wish I could answer this question with a super motivational story about always dreaming of owning a hundred-truck company, but I wasn’t a dreamer back then. I really wasn’t.

I didn’t see that path for myself, especially being a woman in the industry. I was raised to believe that women are more of an accessory to a man’s success than successful in their own right.

At the time, I was studying to be a dental hygienist with plans to become a dentist. I thought a standard nine-to-five life was what I was always going to have.

I didn’t think I was going to be entrepreneurial. My husband was more of that person; he really wanted to build a successful business.

In 2012, we didn’t start the business out of some glorious ambition; we started because we were desperate and needed a way to make money just to survive.

My dad was an owner-operator and always seemed to pay the bills, so we thought, “Let’s try that.” There was no grand vision of being the pinnacle of logistics.

We named it Apex Transit because we loved the name. I love hiking, so to me, the apex represents the top of the mountain.

For my husband, it related to car racing, hitting the apex of a curve to propel yourself forward. We combined those concepts into our logo with the road and the mountain.

We didn’t consciously know where the company was going. In 2012, we didn’t have a grand vision; we just wanted to survive, pay the bills, and feed our family. That’s why we started Apex.

We slowly added a second truck in 2015. It was incredibly rough to get through, but eventually, we reached six trucks and it just kept growing.

We realized that having more trucks insulated us from operational shocks. If you only have two trucks and one breaks down, it is a huge loss to your revenue and income.

With more trucks, we were better protected if a driver didn’t show up or a load fell off. That’s the practical reason we kept expanding.

Eventually, it turned into the little company that could. Up until we hit about twenty trucks, I handled everything in the back office myself.

I did all the invoicing, driver hiring, recruiting, payroll, and accounting. I didn’t even have a bookkeeper, so I managed all of QuickBooks.

Whatever I needed to learn, I looked up on Google or YouTube. I figured if there’s a will, there’s a way.

The true vision came to us later, when we started to see the real impact a company can make on someone’s life.

We hired one of our drivers in 2016, and seeing the impact on his family, where he went from bankruptcy to owning his own home because of a steady paycheck, changed everything.

It also influenced how we ran our office. We were one of the very few trucking companies of our size to offer things like paid time off and parental leave.

When people come from toxic environments to Apex and see that you don’t have to be yelled at, that you can be treated with dignity and respect, that became the mission.

We are building this for the people. Now, it feels like a profound responsibility and a burden to make it even greater.

[00:09:53] John Howland: As a leader, you guys are doing awesome work. Todd and I both have carrier backgrounds, and there is a lot of really cool buzz around Apex doing things the right way.

Given the interesting freight landscape we are currently in, my question is about your hyper-focus on service and performance.

In today’s freight environment, how do you balance operational efficiency with maintaining that strong focus on your customers and building those relationships?

[00:10:31] Marina Ivanov: I would say that I often make mistakes and fail, and then I learn from them. It is not easy to do both, and I’d be lying if I said everything is always hunky-dory. It’s challenging.

I am obsessed with good service, almost to a fault. My team eventually had to look at me and say, “Marina, it’s okay to let a customer down. It’s okay to disappoint them because you’re hurting Apex.”

They told me, “We can’t deadhead a hundred-something miles just to cover this customer load.” I did exactly that a year ago because of a relentless drive to prove our value.

I believed that if I provided excellent service, customers would see it and pay for it. But the big issue last year was rates; nobody wanted to pay what carriers actually needed.

My goal to execute at all costs really hurt us financially in the end. I learned from that experience that there absolutely has to be a balance.

The balance really comes down to transparent communication. If you talk to your customers about the reasons behind a failure, they will understand.

Nothing is perfect in trucking, and no operation is going to be at 100% all the time. I am proud of the fact that we serviced one account for two and a half years with 100% on-time delivery.

But it took an immense toll on me to maintain that. We would fly a driver in just to recover a single load. It involved a lot of extra steps.

That set a high reputation for service, which is incredibly important to me. But I had to realize I can still be a great service provider while communicating openly when we can’t execute the way we did in the past.

[00:12:13] Todd Waldron: I experienced that same thing at QCarriers. For the founder and his son, service was a paramount objective because they both held CDLs.

There were many weekends where they would go pick up shipments themselves; they truly lived it.

But at a certain scale, you have to back off a bit to identify where to draw the line, because it is simply not cost-effective to do that across the board.

In brokerage, logistics, and asset-based operations, success lies in knowing when to take ten extra steps versus five steps or just one step, and understanding what that relationship is truly about.

That understanding is what makes great account managers and great leaders, because there is no perfect playbook.

This industry depends on so many variables unique to each customer and instance. As you translate that mindset to your team at your current size, what does that look like?

I know you speak a lot about empathetic leadership in an industry defined by urgency and constant pressure.

How do you train and lead your team to share your passion for service while also understanding the operational nuances of transportation?

[00:13:50] Marina Ivanov: I communicate with my team as much as possible about why a customer is important, bringing them into the fold to share the overarching vision.

That was my approach for a while, and it works to an extent. But I realized that while my employees are good people, they don’t own the company and don’t see it exactly the way I do.

That is just the reality of the situation. To counter that, I decided to make them feel like part-owners of the business.

I tried many systems that failed, but I recently uncovered a model that works beautifully: creating mini-entrepreneurs within the company.

We assign them specific trucks and make them responsible for their management. They manage a P&L, and at the end of the day, they directly benefit from its performance.

Giving them true skin in the game has fostered the same ownership mentality I have. They treat the business as their own because they are directly affected by it, rather than just earning a flat salary.

We created an excellent bonus system for the team running the freight and managing the drivers.

Since driver retention and mileage issues land on them, the managers now have the autonomy to make decisions that keep drivers happy instead of losing them.

The worst thing for me is an indifferent attitude. I want people to care as much as I do, but I’ve learned to accept what is and figure out how to work effectively within the system.

You have to find what motivates each individual. Everyone has a very different motivational style.

I did something unique with my group: I had everyone take an employee appreciation quiz, which is essentially a workplace “love language” quiz.

We left out the physical touch aspect to keep HR happy, of course! But I learned how my team operates.

For example, Tim is motivated by acts of service, whereas Thomas is motivated by words of affirmation. I can’t praise Tim the same way I praise Thomas; I have to show him through a different approach.

There is an effective way to lead people by truly understanding them. Because I take the time to understand and care about them, they care about me and Apex.

[00:16:28] Todd Waldron: I used the Predictive Index, or PI, at previous organizations, and it relates directly to that concept.

Some people are motivated by public affirmation in front of a group, while others don’t want that spotlight and prefer individual recognition.

I love your tailored approach rather than trying to use the same leadership hammer across the board with everyone. That’s fantastic.

[00:17:00] John Howland: It’s all about finding someone’s passion. Helping them channel that passion into their daily role has been the most rewarding part of leadership for me as well.

What I am passionate about is hopefully different from what my team members are passionate about, allowing us to collaboratively stay in our lanes and crush it together.

[00:17:29] Marina Ivanov: I have to give a massive shout-out to my management team because I can’t do this alone. I needed to step back, stop getting involved in everything, and trust them to be good stewards.

[00:17:47] Todd Waldron: That is very difficult for many founders.

[00:17:49] Marina Ivanov: Yes, I know! It is definitely a work in progress.

[00:17:51] John Howland: It will always be a work in progress for you, I’m sure.

[00:17:54] Marina Ivanov: Yes, I’ve told them, “Just poke me and say, ‘Stay in your lane.'” I tell them to challenge me because I like to be challenged.

I really appreciate that feedback. I don’t want to be surrounded by “yes people” who just agree with my vision.

I’ve been wrong many times, and I want to learn from the diverse perspectives that the people around me bring in.

[00:18:15] John Howland: We need 2,000 other Marinas in this industry, for sure! I know you served as the chair of the North Carolina Women in Trucking Council for a little while.

I’m curious about the initiatives and things you were doing to attract and retain more women in this industry. What sorts of things were you guys focused on in that group?

[00:18:41] Marina Ivanov: The North Carolina Trucking Association created a Women in Trucking Council to build a dedicated space, and we hold a yearly summit.

It’s a place for folks who aren’t just in accounting. We have a safety council, a technology council, and a maintenance council.

Not everyone can attend standard management meetings, so this created a wider net to educate, inspire, and promote women in the industry.

We host several educational workshops throughout the year. For example, we did a DISC assessment workshop where we learned to understand different personality profiles, which was really cool.

To answer your question, it’s about creating a space where professional development in trucking is accessible and affordable.

It won’t break the bank because a lot of our events are actually at no cost if you’re a member, providing great value.

But at the same time, for me, it was a little bit more personal than that. Seeing what is possible is so important.

I didn’t see this path for myself initially, and I struggled for many years with the feeling that I didn’t belong in this industry.

I would think, “I’m a young woman; who is going to take me seriously?” It was my own limiting belief.

I used to hide behind my husband’s emails when reaching out to people. I wasn’t out there sharing my insights because I just didn’t see a place for myself.

I wasn’t part of associations, and I didn’t see women in leadership. I just had my head down in the sand, working.

But taking a break to step out and attend a leadership summit or a Women in Trucking event changes everything because you get to see so many incredible women.

You get inspired because you can’t be what you can’t see, right? You have to visualize what’s possible.

I want to be an inspiration and motivate other women in the industry to realize that leadership is entirely possible for them.

You often have voices in your head saying, “You’re too weak to be a leader, you’re too nice, you’re too naive, people will take advantage of you, or women don’t make good leaders.”

That bias was running rampant in my head until I realized it was literally just me, and I didn’t have to listen to that voice anymore.

I had amazing mentors show up in my life at the right time who told me, “You know, it’s actually your superpower. You shouldn’t hide behind it.”

That’s when we applied and got certified as a woman-owned business. My husband and I split our duties: he handles the truck side, and I run the logistics side.

It has been a really good fit. Todd, you asked earlier about personal growth. This industry has given me more opportunities to grow than I ever imagined.

That’s why I want to give back by serving on chairs and committees. It’s why I go to Washington, D.C. every September, this will be my sixth year, to advocate for trucking.

It’s a special industry where anyone starting with nothing can build an incredible company that makes a real impact on the community and people’s lives.

Right now, the industry is under attack with everything going on, and we have to ensure our voices are heard through advocacy efforts. You have to keep showing up.

It’s easy to get discouraged, but if you just talk about the problems and don’t do anything, you become part of the problem.

[00:22:02] Todd Waldron: It’s an incredible story to hear your journey. We’ve talked at multiple conferences, and you’re so engaged in different groups, public speaking, and advocating for the industry.

That didn’t just happen overnight or land in your lap; it was a profound moment of self-recognition and professional development.

As you look at where the industry stands today, what areas would you focus on to make trucking more accessible and sustainable for women long-term?

Are there still major things that need to improve, or where exactly are we at in that journey?

[00:22:43] Marina Ivanov: You can look at that question a couple of different ways. On the driver side, we currently face a massive shortage of qualified drivers.

I recently did the research, and women make up only about 4% of over-the-road drivers.

If we could get just 3% more women to join over-the-road driving roles, it would eliminate many of the hiring challenges trucking companies face.

There are clear challenges for female drivers, from safety issues to truck parking. I will continue fighting the good fight on safe parking.

It’s unbelievable how challenging it is for drivers and the immense stress they live with when they can’t find a safe place to park.

I’m proud of the work we did through the North Carolina Trucking Association to ban the booting of commercial vehicles.

Drivers running out of hours used to get booted in the wrong spot, facing a six-thousand-dollar, cash-only demand to get the boot removed.

That predatory practice is now illegal in North Carolina thanks to our advocacy work. Those situations are terrifying for women on the road.

You feel completely unsafe dealing with criminal individuals demanding cash from you in the middle of the night.

On the leadership side, there is still plenty of work to be done. That’s why I speak so openly about building up successful female leaders.

I’m deeply inspired by women like Shelley Simpson, and platforms like this podcast help share these stories so other women realize they can do it too.

[00:24:42] John Howland: All right, we are going to jump into my favorite segment: the lightning round! We’ll ask a few fun questions, and the goal is just to get a quick answer.

We’ll fly right through it. I get to ask the first question, which is my signature one for everyone: if animals could drive trucks, which animal do you think would be the best driver out there?

[00:25:10] Marina Ivanov: I don’t know why, but a lioness immediately came to mind. That was just my first instinctive answer!

[00:25:19] Todd Waldron: Perfect, I love it! Finish this sentence: “The freight industry will be meaningfully better when…”

[00:25:26] Marina Ivanov: …when people stop treating each other poorly. Amen to that! It takes so little effort to just be nice.

[00:25:36] Todd Waldron: Yes! And when people stop assuming negative intent or judging where others are coming from without knowing what’s going on in their lives. Let’s take a step back and work together.

[00:25:46] Marina Ivanov: Curiosity over judgment, every single time.

[00:25:48] Todd Waldron: Put that on a T-shirt!

[00:25:49] John Howland: Yes! What is a book, podcast, or newsletter that you highly recommend for people working in this industry?

[00:25:59] Marina Ivanov: Behind the Freight!

[00:26:02] John Howland: Love it! Behind the Freight, especially now more than ever. We’re actually going to send you a teaser soon as to why, but expect great things for the show in the very near future.

[00:26:13] Marina Ivanov: Let me give another shout-out to Dr. Gina Anderson with Luma. We use their driver-learning product, and she is fantastic at spreading kindness in the trucking world.

She is incredibly passionate about the industry and hosts an amazing podcast that I love listening to as well.

[00:26:29] Todd Waldron: That’s awesome. That might actually answer my next question: who is someone in the trucking industry doing great work that more people should follow or learn from?

[00:26:38] Marina Ivanov: Oh, I didn’t know you were going there! I guess I just answered that question ahead of time.

[00:26:41] Todd Waldron: Two birds with one stone! I’ll give you a chance to add someone else if you’d like, but otherwise, we can absolutely double down on her.

[00:26:46] Marina Ivanov: Oh, let’s double down!

[00:26:48] John Howland: All right, I love it. Well, Marina, it has been a complete honor to have you on the show. I’m so glad I got to meet you and get to know you a bit.

You are doing so many amazing, special things. We really appreciate you, your dedication to the industry, and your time today.

[00:27:05] John Howland: Todd, anything else before we close out?

[00:27:07] Todd Waldron: No, it has just been an absolute pleasure. I’m so grateful to have had you on. Thank you for being here, Marina.

[00:27:10] Marina Ivanov: Thank you so much!

[00:27:11] John Howland: This has been Behind the Freight with John and Todd. Marina, thank you so much.

[00:27:15] Todd Waldron: We will catch up with you soon. If this episode helped you think differently about your operation, please share it with someone in your network who needs to hear it.

[00:27:22] John Howland: And if you’re looking for tools to help keep your trucks rolling, from finding quality loads to getting paid quicker, truckstop.com is here to help.

[00:27:30] Todd Waldron: Go visit truckstop.com to explore the load board, rate insights, and risk management solutions built specifically for carriers and brokers.

Thanks for listening to us at Behind the Freight. Until next time, keep the wheels turning and the bad loads burning!