Brent – 00:00:01:
Welcome to Freight Nation, a trucking podcast where we explore the fascinating world of trucking and freight management. We dive deep into the freight industry and uncover why the trucking industry is more crucial to our country now than ever before. Stay tuned to uncover the driving forces behind successful trucking businesses and hear from the hardworking truckers and leaders who keep the world moving. Let’s hit the road. Welcome back, Freight Nation. Man, as I like to say, I appreciate you watching along and listening along to Freight Nation, a podcast by Truckstop. We’re excited and always humbled that we get to bring these type of stories to you every single time when we do this, because we want to help you improve your career, improve your business, improve your experience inside the freight transportation industry. And today is going to be a lot of fun. As I like to say, they’re always fun for me, man, because I get to learn a new story. But for you today, you’re going to get to hear a story from a good friend of mine who has become the executive leadership, part of the executive leadership with his company and in this industry. And hopefully you’ll take away something today that you’ll be able to say in your career. Well, maybe that’s something that I ought to like change in the way I approach the marketplace. So I can continue to move up in the business that I’m in or I can improve the business that I own. And so today is like that executive series, like, OK, well, how do you like move along in leading and guiding a company and learn from a person that has accomplished that? So joining me today is one of my favorite people in the market, just because this guy is the real deal, man. He’s just he is exactly as he talks, as he lives his life, as he moves on in this industry. He just is as he is. And so I love that about people when you know that they’re honest and sincere. So joining me today on Freight Nation is my good friend, Drew Herpich of NTG Freight. Drew, thanks so much for joining us on Freight Nation.
Drew – 00:01:42:
No, I appreciate you having me and appreciate the kind words there, Brent.
Brent – 00:01:45:
Well, it’s easy to say that, man. So Freight Nation, Drew’s been an integral part of what we do at Truckstop. He’s been a customer advisory board member. We turn to him to help us build things for the product that benefits the overall industry. And Drew’s got a really great experience on the carrier side and on the brokerage side on really understanding this marketplace. And so you’ll take away a lot from today on his experience. And I know it’ll be a good one. All right, Drew. So here’s the fun thing, man. This is where it’s fun for me because I’m the type of guy. I love the story. I love to talk about the story. I’m always telling stories. So I want you today to tell the Freight Nation Watchers and listeners and me too. I know a little bit of it, but I don’t know all of it. Sure. Your story about like how you got into freight and did you start out as a young guy? Like I always wanted to be in trucking. I always wanted to be in freight. Or was it like, okay, well, I had one direction and then I found this direction. So take us from the beginning, man. Take us from the beginning about where Drew started in freight.
Drew – 00:02:37:
Yeah, no, absolutely. I appreciate that, Brent. To kick it off, I still have yet to meet somebody in this industry that has told me that they dreamed about being a freight broker growing up. I still have yet to meet that person. So if anybody’s out there, I’d love to do a podcast with you or talk to you about that. But yeah, I’d still have not met that person. But to your point, Brent, I went through school. I always joke around and say to people that I went to the Harvard of the Midwest at Western Michigan University.
Brent – 00:02:59:
The Harvard of the Midwest?
Drew – 00:03:00:
Harvard of the Midwest, exactly.
Brent – 00:03:03:
I’ve got to use that one. That’s a great one.
Drew – 00:03:05:
A little Mac school there in Western Michigan, and it was a great school. And so I came out of college, Brian, and like most people, I had a degree in what I probably knew I wanted to do bigger picture was sales overall, but didn’t know exactly what I wanted to do. And for me, what really happened was I had a job offer in Detroit. I ended up locking that in, but being a kid growing up in Southeast Detroit, for the most part, you want to get out and you want to get to one of the bigger cities. And that city for me was always Chicago.
Brent – 00:03:31:
Freight capital of the United States.
Drew – 00:03:33:
Freight capital of the United States. And I’m going through all my contacts because at this point as a college grad, I’m like, yes, I’ve got the Detroit job locked in. What can I see I can do out there? And my cousin formerly worked for American Backhaulers back in the day.
Brent – 00:03:45:
Oh, wow. Everybody refers to American Backhaulers. What a foundation.
Drew – 00:03:48:
What a foundation, right? And especially what Jeff and that team built. And he called me and he said, hey, listen, if you want to take a crack at something, this guy, Jeff Silver and Marianne Silver are starting this company. It’s called Coyote. We’re barely off the ground. Drew, it’s going to be one of those things. Let’s see. They’re going to go out of business in a couple of weeks or it might blow up and be the biggest thing. And at this time, too, Jeff was still a very big influence in the industry. But, you know, at that point, it was just really what he did with American Backhaulers and C.H. Robinson. At this point, Coyote hasn’t taken off. And so familiar with some of the Google searches and things going on. This is back in 2006.
Brent – 00:04:22:
Yeah, I was going to say, what year was that?
Drew – 00:04:23:
Yeah, this is more plentiful than LinkedIn. Yeah. And so I’m looking it up a little bit. Crazy. He’s like, just come to Chicago. Come experience it. So I get to Chicago, probably about a thousand square foot. Building, maybe 10 people in there, two monitors, the laptop, right? People yelling at each other. And I’m sitting there for a second and I walk into Marianne Silver’s room and she’s like, what are you thinking? And for me, Brandon, it was one of those nervous feelings because I walked in. I had one of those button ups on and my top button, right? The button popped up. So instead of going to a job interview, it looked like I was going to the club that night. So I’m nervous in the first place walking in and Marianne’s like, what do you think? And I’m like. Culture seems amazing, vibrant, everybody’s go. I’m like, I have no idea what you’re doing. And so for me, it was an easy decision. I took that opportunity in Chicago over Detroit. I saw the vision that Marianne and Jeff were building. I saw what my cousin, Brian Teal, who at a young age always looked up to. He was successful. He did well. He had a boat in Chicago, doing some of those things that the brokers were doing. And I was like, this seems like a really cool industry. And so I started, and I’ll never forget it, Brian. Those first three, four, five months, it was kind of like a video game to me, right? I’m sitting there with two screens. I got my laptop and I’m tracking loads. I’m calling customers, I’m calling carriers. And it just didn’t make a lot of sense to me at first. And then it started to really click to me when I started talking to more of the carrier base, right? Started talking, and that’s where I really got off the ground for me in this industry, was starting to understand carriers, what they go through. And for me, Brent, it was not so much about wondering where their lanes were, what kind of rates they’re looking for. I just loved hearing the stories. I loved hearing the story about the guy traveling across the country. I loved hearing the story about the guy that had some issue at the port and telling you some crazy story. There was just always something coming up with one of these drivers on the phone. And I just found myself listening and listening. And for me, growing back up in Detroit, and I was in Chicago, I was going back home to see my family. And every time I’d go back home, that was an opportunity for me to really strengthen myself in this industry. It’s because I lived off the I-94. And from Chicago to Detroit, plenty of truck stops on 94, on the way back. And what I found myself doing was stopping at those truck stops, putting my business cards down. I think I’m a young professional at 22. I’ve got my business cards. I’m feeling all good about myself. I’m dropping them all over these truck stops. I’ve got my notepad with me on the way home and with a buddy. And I’m obviously trying to be very responsible on the road, but trying to write these MC numbers down. Because again, back in the day, you obviously had companies like yourself and different lists that you could get companies from. But the best way was going on the road to see it. And so for me, that’s how I really just learned in the industry. And from there, really just took off going from there.
Brent – 00:07:04:
Wow, Drew. That’s a, I don’t know many people that when they got in this industry, actually were like, no, I’m taking my feet out on the road. I’m going to take it out there. I’m going to experience it. I’m going to be around it. I’m going to go in. I tell people all the time, you want to experience trucking, go into a Truckstop. Talk to owner-operators and company drivers and the guys and girls that are in those truck stops and watch their environment. That’s their home away from home. Man, I respect you even more. That’s how you started. Cutting your teeth on this.
Drew – 00:07:30:
Well, I always tell people, if you really want to get into this industry and you think you know what you’re talking about, and this is the thing too for most brokers, me included, I don’t have a CDL. I’ve never drove in a truck. I don’t understand the complexity that goes through it, living on the road and things like that. And so understanding what that carrier goes through, understanding that’s the number one job in America, right? Over 3.5 million drivers out there. For brokers that are in cities or these nice buildings and things like that, they don’t see that on a day-to-day. And so I’d encourage them to get out there, get to some of these random spots. And one of the spots I went to as a young age every year was the Trucker Jamboree.
Brent – 00:08:01:
Oh, no way. Iowa, 80?
Drew – 00:08:02:
On Wolcott, Iowa. And so I always tell some people the great stories that I’ve had out there. But I remember that first time I pulled up to that and I’m just seeing acres upon acres of trailers and stands and people, all the little trinkets and everything that’s around the trucking industry. And I remember one night there was a trailer and there was a disco ball and just the different things that would happen at these events and these things. But you have to really know how these drivers think, how these carriers think, what they wanted out of people they worked with, whether it be a broker, a customer or a vendor. And for me, it was the respect, one, I gained for them. Two, the respect I think all of us need to have from a United States standpoint of how our goods are actually delivered to us. But then three, making me be able to do my. Job better, not only at myself, but as I grew through the brokerage industry, understanding that this is always a two prong thing. I think a lot of brokerage always focus on customers and growth and getting all that. You’re only 50% good there because the other 50% is the carrier network you have, the carrier relationships you have, because that’s what really builds a brokerage at the end of the day.
Brent – 00:09:06:
Yeah, no doubt. Well, that’s a. I think Freight Nation, you can see why Drew and I are friends. It sounds like to me, as you can hear the words from the man himself, he really loves and respects carriers and he understands how important they are to our country and to the success in his business and what he does. And Freight Nation, that’s how I feel about them. I can go on and on about my love for owner-operators and small fleets and medium fleets and large fleets and what they do for our country and for our lifestyle. So, man, this is another reason, Drew, why I realize why we’re friends and why I really respect what you do. All right. So carriers, we’ll talk a little bit more about carriers as we went through this. So you started this thing at Coyote and things started really growing there for you, Coyote. So talk a little bit about, because you were obviously there a thousand square feet. Coyote is a little larger than that now. They’ve been through a few changes as well. And so have you. So talk a little bit about, okay, as you saw it growing and expanding, how you started thinking differently and how you started maybe modulating and changing your approach to the market and business. Talk to the Freight Nation Watchers about that.
Drew – 00:10:08:
Even when I was 22 or to where I’m now in my career.
Brent – 00:10:11:
So you’re not 22 anymore?
Drew – 00:10:12:
No, definitely not. If you can see my beard growing in, you can see some of the grays coming through here. And well, Brent, I’m not fully bald yet, but I might as well be.
Brent – 00:10:19:
Hey, one day, man, one day.
Drew – 00:10:21:
One of these days, I’m just going to have to bite the bullet. Ironically enough, we’re talking about Jeff Silver. He used to always look up in my receiving hairline. He always used to say, when are you just going to, when are you going to shave that? When are you going to do that?
Brent – 00:10:30:
I can hear you say that. Totally hear Jeff saying that, absolutely.
Drew – 00:10:33:
Yeah, but no, for me, Brent, it was one of those things, starting with a young company, we got our feet off the ground. I remember myself and Pat Campbell and Dima Secure and Tom Reed would go to lunch. And again, lunch at a brokerage is very short. I’d go to Panera Bread, come back. And we always used to joke around with each other. You think the lights are still on? You think the door’s going to be open when we come back? Because it was in those early grounds where we were growing, we were selling, we were working 10, 11, 12, 13 hour days. Saturdays weren’t an option. For me, at a young age and not making a ton of money in Chicago, we had a bat phone. And so at the time, small company, right? 10, 15, 20 people growing. We didn’t have after-hour services. We didn’t have people answering the phones after 6 p.m. And so we had this bat phone. It was a little flip phone and you bring it home with you. And every night you worked it or any weekend, you’d get 50 bucks for the night or a hundred bucks for the weekend. And for me, those were some bar bills and maybe electric. Spending money, right? Exactly. And so you’re growing through this industry. You’re learning so much. The work hard, play hard was really real. Marianne Silver was building a phenomenal culture. Jeff had that vision. And for me, that was so important because as I was going through that, my mindset and how I grew up, Brent, from the family I grew up with, was very work hard, make your money, keep saving your money. And Jeff had a very different outlook than how I grew up. Jeff was very entrepreneurial, very visionary. He would say something and I’m thinking to myself, I’m like, that’s never going to happen. And three years later, it would happen. Things like that. And so just watching his mindset of, hey, I’m going to be able to get to this end prize, help me built some of those entrepreneurial skills that maybe I didn’t have the foundation of. Saw him in action. And so for me, I learned so much because obviously I came up with those people like Pat and Dima and Tom that I talked about. My cousin, Brian, was a good resource. But I remember where I sat is I had Tim King behind me, who industry legend was Schneider. Tim through all the years, TK, Coyote. It was over at Arrive for a few years. Then I had Mark Ford sitting to my right, who obviously is the COO of Blue Grace. And then I had Jeff Silver sitting at the head of the table. Correct. They would hear every word I’d say, but I would hear every word they would say as well, too. So for me, I was a sponge. Every time Jeff got on the customer, I just listened. And I always cringed every time I got on with a carrier. We had a lane from Staten Island to Worcester, Massachusetts. But of course, as a young 22-year-old, I’m like, I’ve got a load going to Worcester, Massachusetts. And I just remember hearing Jeff just always just, you wouldn’t even look up, would just yell, Drew Herpich, Worcester, it’s Worcester. So from those things, though, that’s what really taught me that that first year, just sitting between those guys, hearing them talk about the business, hearing them talk about the growth, how we were attacking, so many different ways really taught me and built a foundation for me for years to come.
Brent – 00:13:14:
Yeah, no doubt. What I hear in your voice is that you just always try to remain coachable. My dad used to say that to me all the time, like, just be coachable, man. People love to work with people that are coachable. And I’m sure that’s why Jeff and Tom and Mark, all of them, really enjoyed working with you because you were coachable. You know what I mean? That’s super important.
Drew – 00:13:31:
Probably coachable, probably a little bit young and dumb.
Brent – 00:13:33:
Out of bad place.
Drew – 00:13:35:
No, exactly. And I always tell everybody this, Brent, I’m never the smartest guy in the room. And honestly, if you are the smartest guy in the room, you’re probably in the wrong room. And so for me, they dealt with a lot of young Drew, some of the dumb comments. Mark Ford has got a lot of these written down, ready to go. So if you ever have a conversation with him, he’d probably love to exploit some of those. But those are some of the things that I’ll never forget is they let me learn through some of that. And then to your point, not knowing what I didn’t know.
Brent – 00:13:59:
Yeah, that helps though, man. I was talking to another person in the industry and he was an athlete. He just said, look, I just thought I could figure it out. And I had that confidence. And it sounds like that’s a little bit the way that Jeff was in starting Coyote as well. And I learned a lot from Scott Moscrip about the logistics industry. And believe it or not, when people first meet Scott Moscrip, they’re like, oh, he’s this introverted technologist, blah, blah, blah. He is a risk taker.
Drew – 00:14:22:
Don’t let Scott fool you. Yeah.
Brent – 00:14:24:
He’ll see it out there and he’ll go, we’re going to make this happen. And people are like, what? And he’ll go, no. This can happen because he’s a problem solver. And I know Jeff’s the same way. When you first meet Jeff, it’s a little intimidating because he’s this big guy and he’s got this kind of tough look about him. Was he a previous MMA fighter? I’m not sure. But then you realize, wait a minute, he’s actually got really curious about you and your success. And so that’s the thing that I’ve taken away. And so how did some of those influences with even like the culture, you talked about Mary Ann building a culture, Jeff having a vision, and then Tom and Mark really helping you operationally in things. What did that do? What did that build into you?
Drew – 00:15:00:
It taught me a lot of things, Brent. It taught me the resilience of some of this market. The big thing was when I came on board, I graduated college in 06, came on board early 07, and boom, we went right into that recession. Right?
Brent – 00:15:12:
The 2008, 2009 The Great Recession. Is that what you’re talking about?
Drew – 00:15:15:
Yep. Yep.
Brent – 00:15:15:
I like to famously say it this way. When your 401k became a 201k.
Drew – 00:15:20:
Yeah. And for me, it was my $10 became $5. I was a little bit resilient to it because, again, I was young. I didn’t have a ton then. I’m trying to build up my career at this point.
Brent – 00:15:29:
Right.
Drew – 00:15:30:
But what was always interesting to me is now when I go back on history and look back at things, and I remember a good friend, his dad told me like, hey, Drew, this is the one time you’re going to put every dollar you have into the stock market. And I did. And the other thing I thought about always back then, too, was I never worried about it at work. When I got to 2011 and 2012 and 2013, I didn’t worry about it. And you know why I didn’t worry about it, Brent? It’s probably the same reason you didn’t. You had a leader like Scott. And we had a leader like Jeff where Jeff didn’t talk about the recession. Jeff didn’t talk about the tough times. He always would say, that’s for other people. We’re going to grow right through it. We’re not going to have to worry about those things. And now looking back at it, it was something that I was so happy about because I still have people today that still have scars from 2008 and what they went through and how they had to operate their company and everything like that. And for me, that was an opportunity for us to grow. And that was one of the biggest things I always learned from kind of the principles of what we had back there was when everybody was always struggling, that was the time to double down, especially when you look at these freight cycles and these freight markets. And it’s easy to. It’s one of those things I think a lot of people know how to do it. It’s a whole nother thing to execute, put the money where it is. And those are a lot of things that we really did back in 08, 09 that really catapult us to the next level.
Brent – 00:16:40:
And then have the intestinal fortitude to stick at it. Say, nope, my bed is my bed. I think I’m right on my bed. And adjust a little bit where you need to, but be able to stick at it 100%. So you obviously grew a lot in those days. And what a great place to be able to grow somebody that at that time wasn’t coyote like it is today. But today, obviously you grew through that. So let’s talk about as the business took off, you moved from working in the carrier side to more into the management part. Talk a little bit about your transition into more of a leadership role.
Drew – 00:17:11:
Yeah, no, we were growing so fast. And so overnight, you’re at 50 people. Then you’re at 100 people. Then you’re at 200 people. We started getting some very large customers. That’s where Jeff really focused on a lot of these large enterprise customers. And then all of a sudden, I’m 24 years old. You’ve got 20, 30, 40 people that we’re starting to manage. The processes start to take off and we start to really build and grow this. And for me, it was just learning what I didn’t know, right? One, how to talk to people, how to coach people, how to get the most out of people.
Brent – 00:17:39:
You mean when you’re the leader, they don’t just do everything you’d say?
Drew – 00:17:41:
People that think that do, Brent. That’s where I think their biggest issue is, right? Because one line I love to live by is different strokes for different folks, right? And everybody looks at life a little bit differently. Some people want money. Some people want more career opportunity. Some people just want to be respected. Some people want to be consistent. Whatever it might be, finding out what that makes them tick on a day-to-day basis is always the most important. And then just understanding what you don’t know. One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was 24, like, hey, let’s put some of our top salespeople as managers. That was the worst idea possible, Brent. A bunch of type A alpha people that are me-focused trying to manage people. And so those are some of the things that I think as a young company, we learned through. Like I said, I had great supporting cast in that leadership with guys like Mark Ford and Pat Campbell and Dave Herbert and Jan Tio and John Perkovich. I could keep naming names, right? Sean Fahey, Todd Souder, Cameron Ramsell.
Brent – 00:18:31:
These are all people that are running businesses elsewhere.
Drew – 00:18:34:
They’re all running some of the top brokerage across the country right now, right?
Brent – 00:18:37:
What a great team to learn from. And beyond. Yeah, so sure.
Drew – 00:18:40:
Yeah. And we always joke around about it now is like, you think about sports teams, right? And I guess I’m fast forwarding a little bit to you, Brent. But if you think about sports teams, you always want like your favorite sports team. You’re like, hey, you got to keep the quarterback and the running back and the right receiver. And it’s hard to do that at the end of the day. And then that’s what I think eventually, obviously, through the years, obviously transpires.
Brent – 00:18:59:
Yeah, well, I want to pause there just for a second and talk to the watchers and listeners of Freight Nation and say, look, what Drew just said about finding out what motivates people, super important, whether it’s somebody that’s working with you or for you or whether it’s a customer. Finding out what’s important to them is the key to your success in them being successful and you being successful. So if you’re the leader of them, then you need them to be successful because your team has to be successful for you to be successful. So, yeah, what great advice, Drew. That’s fantastic advice. So keep rolling, man. Keep going on.
Drew – 00:19:31:
Yeah, no. And so we came up and now I’m starting to manage people. The company is starting to grow. I had an opportunity to move from Chicago to Atlanta. One of our larger customers was based in Atlanta, built a beautiful office down there.
Brent – 00:19:44:
You moved from Chicago, Illinois, down to a southern city into Atlanta, Georgia. Now, were you married at this time?
Drew – 00:19:50:
I’m not. I was single. I was single.
Brent – 00:19:52:
You were single. Okay. Well, that’s more to the story than here.
Drew – 00:19:55:
Yeah. Yeah. No. And there’s actually probably a lot more to it, too, Brent, because. If anybody knows, moving from the Midwest to the South is not the easiest thing to do. Very two different cultures. And I can’t tell you how many times, Brent, you can hear my nasally Midwest accent that talks very fast. I can’t tell you how many times people down South were like, slow down, Yankee. Slow down, Yankee. Yeah. And so those are some big learning curves from me. I always tell everybody this one story. Great carrier, Wiley Sanders, and one of the dispatchers over there, over out of Troy, Alabama. They run a great operation over there. One of the dispatchers, this is about 15 years ago, was like, hey, man. You need to slow down. You need to take that Yankee personality out of you. This is how we’re going to do business, right? It really taught me how to take a step back, how to build a relationship first before you just dive into business. Not everybody at face is going to understand what you’re thinking behind the scenes. And building that trust, building that connectivity, those are things that are going to lead to longer relationships anyways.
Brent – 00:20:50:
Yeah. Well, for sure they are. Yeah. And again, just to your point about knowing what makes people tick, know your audience. Know the audience that are around. Yeah. Fantastic. All right. So you got to Atlanta. What were you building out in Atlanta? And then let’s talk about your transition when you left Coyote to move to another operation, to another bigger opportunity for yourself. Talk a little bit about what went through your head on that and what was going on. And then the transition to a new company.
Drew – 00:21:12:
Yeah, no, actually. So spent a couple of years in Atlanta, grew a huge office down there. We did a phenomenal job. And then an opportunity came up back for me with Coyote back in Chicago, came back there. We just kept on pouring more fuel on the fire. Then obviously in 2015, UPS bought Coyote for $1.8 billion, one of the biggest deals in the industry at the time, and still to this day. And then from there, obviously you stay down for a few years with my contract and with what transpired with the Coyote and UPS. And for me, it was what’s going to be the next step in my career. And at this point, I’m in my young thirties. I’ve got a tremendous amount of experience. And to your point, it’s knowing when the time is right. Sometimes it’s five, 10 years, sometimes it’s 30, 40 years, right? Everybody’s different. And at that time, I just met my soon to be wife. She was a great cheerleader for me of what we should do next in our lives and how we wanted to build it together.
Brent – 00:22:00:
Well, that’s smart.
Drew – 00:22:01:
Trust me, my better half, much better person than I am. And she does a phenomenal job of raising our three and a half year old and eight month old. But she had the vision, to move forward and say, Hey, Drew, this is the right time for you to take this leap of faith. And so for me at that time, Jeff, who was part of the UPS Coyote M&A deal, took the role as a president of NTG. I knew with him and my experience with Kevin Nolan before, because I knew Kevin for years at the conferences and having Jeff as the leader of the organization was one thing. And then having Kevin walk me through what he did and for you to understand this Brent, guy worth buko amount of money, right?
Brent – 00:22:37:
Everything that got touched seemed to turn to gold. Kevin. And what a fun guy too. Kevin’s a fun guy.
Drew – 00:22:41:
Great guy to hang out with. To your point, everything touches gold. I always joke around with people. He probably had one of the more successful restaurants during COVID somehow, right? Like he just, everything he touches turns to gold in a positive way. But I remember back in 2020, when I was going through this process of where should I go? What company should I join? There’s a couple other brokerage I was looking at. Kevin just had the, Hey, Drew, listen, I’ve been to this point. I’ve gotten this company to here. I care so much about these 1500 people, whether this company goes next. I don’t know how to get it. To that billion, 2 billion, 3 billion, where these guys can keep building their careers. I need guys like you and Jeff to come on board and just having that, I don’t know if it’s humility or empathy or what it might be, but just to understand, Hey, this is what’s going to be able to catapult us to the next level. That was the team I really wanted to join. So join NTG in 2020, been here four and a half years now, oversee our brokerage operation here. And it’s been a tremendous growth pattern that we’ve been on as a company and everything we set out to do in 2020. It’s really come to fruition.
Brent – 00:23:41:
Yeah. Well, no doubt making that pivot in your career. Sometimes it’s hard because you love where you were and there’s great memories where you were because when you’re successful, man, it feels great. It just feels like that’s where I want to stay. But then most of the time opportunity lies somewhere else. It just does, unless you own the business and that’s just the way things work and people want great talented people to come in. So that’s a really big opportunity for yourself. But so you got to NTG and then there were a lot of changes at NTG as well that you guys grew that enterprise. Would you talk a little bit to the Freight Nation Watchers about how you guys continue to grow the business out? And there were even some mergers and acquisitions in that. So talk a little bit about that part of the process, because it’s one thing to be handling a carrier management or selling customers into a business. It’s another thing when you are growing a business itself. So talk a little bit about that and give some of your good sage advice to the Freight Nation Watchers.
Drew – 00:24:34:
Yeah. We had multiple lines of growth, right? It wasn’t just organic. It wasn’t just M&A. It wasn’t just… Building on what we had. So Griffin Investors bought both TI and NTG back in 2018.
Brent – 00:24:45:
TI being… Tell me about who TI is now.
Drew – 00:24:47:
Transportation Insight. That’s our managed transportation solution. I’ll give you some more detail on that. But yeah, in 2020, I came on board. And a lot of things of how do we look at the synergies between the two companies? How can we leverage some of the things that we do on brokerage to some of our managed transportation? How do we leverage our carrier network overall? And that’s where we really went into that growth mode. To your point, I can’t remember the exact number off the top of my head, but 10 plus merger and acquisitions that we did over the years. A lot of these companies have either fueled our platform or how we’re growing customers or how we’re looking at our carrier base. So for us, it was looking at both ways, not only from an organic standpoint, but what other companies out there, they can help fuel this fire even more.
Brent – 00:25:26:
Yeah, no doubt. So let me ask you this question for the Freight Nation Watchers. How is acquiring a company and helping it to grow you different from just organic growth? How do you approach that differently? Because that’s a… Everybody wants to know that question. I get a phone call all the time thinking about buying a business. How did you guys integrate when y’all bought this business? So talk to the Freight Nation Watchers about that, because I think that’s sage advice.
Drew – 00:25:48:
Yeah. So from the organic standpoint, a little bit easier, right? Maybe these people grew up with you. Maybe they saw your leadership before. Maybe they understood the vision of where the company was going and now you’re helping propel it. On the M&A side of the equation, much different. One, most of these companies were somebody’s babies. And so maybe family owned, maybe individual owned. Maybe bootstrapped. You don’t understand all the issues that they went through, how they started the company, what they had to do to get the financing, what they had to do to make sure that they met payroll. And then to your point, you’re seeing the maturation of it, of the company of possibly selling to you. And so you didn’t have to worry about all these things that they cared so much about that they’ve held to them. You’re going, hey, how do we keep on going forward? What are the synergies look like? What kind of costs and capital are we going to look at through this acquisition? And those are some of the things that I think people don’t understand. At the end of the day, it is business. It comes down to the numbers. But a lot of, I think, successful M&A deals can be done, especially with smaller companies that you’re working with. How do you understand those people? What made them tick? What made that company so great that you don’t lose? Because so many times people forget that. I remember when UPS bought Coyote, Jeff Kelly came in to really help shape that deal. And one of the things he always said is, hey guys, I’m here to make sure that we don’t screw it up. The way he’s basically trying to say is like, hey, I could come in here and tell you the UPS way and everything like that. But UPS and Coyote’s culture were complete polar opposites. So that wasn’t going to work either. But how do you get some of the things that UPS was going to want us to do? You know what I mean? So those are some of the things of really understanding, listening. I think too many times people come into an M&A deal and they’re saying, hey, we’re going to do this in the 15, 30, 60 days. That’s great in the ivory tower and in the Excel sheets. But what’s actually going to go beyond the scenes? What’s making people feel a certain way? How do you keep key important people that are coming over in the deal? There’s just a lot of differences that go into it than looking at your team from an organic approach and saying, hey, listen, this is how we’re going to keep this going.
Brent – 00:27:44:
Yeah, no doubt. I love that. I love that from a strategy standpoint and doing things. There’s a strategy. Then there’s how that really bleeds down into the actual and how it unfolds. And it goes back to that Mike Tyson quote. Everybody’s got a strategy until they get punched in the mouth. Right. And so it’s the same sort of thing. This may be the theme of this podcast. Find out what makes them tick. Or find out what makes that company tick. Because you’re so right on that M&A thing. That’s somebody’s baby. That’s flesh and blood. It’s their dedication of multiple, probably decades of their life. And so treating it a certain way is important to you being able to find success in it.
Drew – 00:28:18:
God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. Right. And so I think so many times people want to go into a situation or a deal or whatever it might be and say, hey, this is how we’re going to do it. If you take a step back and listen, sometimes you’ll find out even more better ways to do things at times.
Brent – 00:28:33:
Yeah, no doubt. I want to go back to you said this because I wrote this down. So the Freight Nation Watchers know this. When I’m looking down, I’m writing notes about what you’re saying because I want to remember it. And you said it again. We have two ears and one mouth. And you said before when you were talking about carriers and the carrier base, you said you did a lot of listening, which, Drew, that speaks volumes to anybody. So Freight Nation, this is a big tip from Drew Herpich, man, the chief commercial officer of a large enterprise level player in the marketplace. He’s created critical. Success. And he still comes back to the fundamentals. He listens well because when people feel listened to, they feel cared for. So super important. And if you’re not hearing that in Drew right now, you’re missing it because he’s a caring guy. All right. So let’s talk about you getting to executive leadership there at NTG. Then I want to talk a few operational things about just some questions about like, how did you work with carriers? When you think about like integrating technology and market changes and how do you pivot on that? But let’s talk about that next step. When you got. The CCO, the chief commercial officer, how to happen real quick. And then how do you think differently at that level? Or how do you think not differently? Additionally, how do you think additionally? Because you’re going to think the way you think, but how do you add to that thinking?
Drew – 00:29:47:
Yeah, I think as you grow up in this industry, so much of it is margin focus, loads focus, growth focus. How do we get more revenue? It’s very important. But then when you get to the different level, it’s how do you make sure you do all that, that I just said, and taking care of the people and making sure the organization is running well. But then how do you deliver to the shareholders then as well at the end of the day? And how do you build long-term success? How do you build more valuation over time? How are you taking advantage of what will happen in three to five to seven to 10 years from now, right? Those are some of the bets as a C-level person that you’ve got to be able to make. And don’t get me wrong, right? You’re going to be wrong. There’s going to be M&A deals that go wrong. There’s going to be initiatives and goals that you put out there that were wrong timed or plans were wrong. But those are some of the most important things is when those things don’t go the way that you want them to, how you’re looked at. A quote that one of our good SVPs said the other day is when you’re on a flight and it starts rambling, get a little turbulence, you look at the flight attendant, right? And if the flight attendant’s calm, you’re like, hey, this is probably normal. The flight attendant’s like grabbing her buckle, like that’s going to make you freak out as well. And so I think that’s so well said from a leadership standpoint as well is there’s times that you might feel emotional. There’s times where you might want to vent and there’s certain situations to do that. But at the same time though, too, they got to look to you to have that confidence of what’s going forward, what’s going to be looking at that next level. And I think getting to that C-level is that stability type thing. The one thing that I admire that our CEO, Ken Beyer, does very well. You know me very well, Brent. I’m very candid. I wear my emotions on my sleeves. Sometimes I’ll get emotional to him and he’s just got a very good way of being calming about it, right? And those are some of the things that I’m learning as I get older as well, too, is every situation doesn’t need to be a knee jerk. Every situation doesn’t need to be quick twitched. I think a lot of us that come up in brokerage feel that way, but having that calming stability feature, that’s what people really like to rally around.
Brent – 00:31:36:
Yeah, for sure. So you’re developing that, what I call mental muscle. You just act more calm, mature to where you’re helping people. Maybe see the bigger picture as well, or see the picture that you wanted to see. That’s exciting, man. So you’ve reached the top of the pinnacle almost. So everything’s really easy, right? Life, you show up every day, all the problems are solved. It’s super easy. So C-level leadership is like the easy part, right?
Drew – 00:32:00:
Yeah, until the freight recession happens. No, it’s one of those things where it’s like the quarterback of the football team. To a certain degree, you’re going to be praised when things go well. And when things don’t go well, you’re going to be the one responsible for it at the end of the day. And those are the things, like my dad always tells me, that’s why you get paid the big bucks. And so you’ve got to be able to own both sides. For me, Brent, we looked at the transportation market outlook this year, and we just put out our Q4 transportation outlook at NTG if anybody wants to check it out. But one of the things I really wanted to own is we got that prediction. I see so many people on LinkedIn and all these different social medias being so quick to throw somebody under the bus for making a prediction or not being bold or trying things. The one thing that I don’t see ever, Brent, is the humility factor and saying, hey, we were wrong. Or, hey, listen, I put out this information three months ago, and it didn’t go that way. It doesn’t mean that you’re dumb. That doesn’t mean you had a bad plan. Because guess what? If you had everything right, you’d probably be a billionaire on Wall Street predicting all these things. And so I think for me, the humility, and being understanding to when things do not go your way, to be very understanding of that, and showing people that that side of you exists as well, too.
Brent – 00:33:06:
Yeah, no doubt. Fantastic. All right, let’s talk a little bit about these two things, because I want to talk a little bit more about carriers, because you’re paying attention to, say, maybe the most important part of the equation of moving free. You got to have a truck to put it on. And so talk a little bit about your approach, because as I love for anybody that’s aspiring to grow their career to understand how somebody who got to your position really started out with a really fundamental thing, which is, paying attention to the carrier and understanding them. Talk a little bit about that, and then talk about how you’ve brought that attention to detail into NTG and TI and transforming that business.
Drew – 00:33:37:
Yeah. I think too many times what I’ve seen over the years, Brent, and when I talk to the other brokerage and some of my buddies that have gone to other places, the one thing I’ve always noticed is everybody’s so focused on their loads, them moving the freight, making money, and you completely, you miss the mark there if that’s how you’re going about your freight on a day-to-day basis, right? Take a step back, understand these carriers, what they’re trying to get to, what is their honey hole, right? Because they’re probably not making a ton of money off you as a broker. They probably need to get back to their customers or their dedicated freight. What makes them tick? Does that driver need to be home on Thursday nights? There’s just a lot of things I think a broker can understand about the carrier and what goes into that instead of just offering lanes and really good paying freight. I hear so many times brokers say, hey, it’s a great lane that pays well. Why wouldn’t you want to take it? I don’t know. Maybe that doesn’t get them where they need to be. Maybe that is a 60-mile deadhead to their home. Maybe that doesn’t get them to sleep with their family that night. Those are things that you’ve got to be able to think about and understand that carrier more. And so whether it be a one-truck operation or a 500-truck operation, how does that owner-operator like to work? Do they work all seven days? Do they only work five? If it’s a 10-20 truck operation, are they dropping at a yard? Where are their yards? If it’s the 100-plus, are you a short haul, middle person, long haul, right? All these different things that will go into it that will help you understand what that carrier needs. And then you’re actually able to assist and offer them something at the end of the day that fills their network, right? Because you’re looking at it, are you filling 10, 20, 30, 40% of their network? And understanding those different pieces will help you be more successful with carriers.
Brent – 00:35:03:
Yeah, man. It’s like a PhD class on how to get the best return in the highest part of your cost as an operation because securing that carrier. Last time I checked, it’s about 40% of the cost of running the operation. The one necessity that you have to have. You have to have freight. The other necessity is you got to have a truck. So fantastic. All right. So talk about how you brought that sort of no-nonsense carrying approach into what you did at NTG and TI.
Drew – 00:35:27:
Yeah. And so when I showed up here in 2020, they were starting the journey of going from that cradle to grave model to more of a buy-sell model. I think what happens is when you go from that cradle to grave model to the buy-sell model, the organic people that grew here at NTG still honed back to that cradle to grave always. Customer’s always number one. And that was something I really wanted to change perception-wise. And even for me, calling some carriers and going, hey, Drew, I’m not going to work with NTG. I’ve had years experience in the past. And that for me was the chip on the shoulder a little bit. But the competitor in me is, I said to myself, I’m like, how are we going to get thousands and thousands of these carriers to start being NTG’s biggest cheerleader? And to me, that’s doing the right things, saying what you’re going to do, making sure that you’re paying attention, whether the customer is paying attention or not, making sure that you’re upholding your end of the bargain, making sure that you’re doing what’s set on those Raycons, communicating the right way back to the carriers. Because too many times I think that brokers take the carrier for granted. I’ll get another one. That’s not how this works, right? This is a big community. Word of mouth is big to me. And then slowly after a while, we started getting the motion turning. The right things are being said on social media. The right things are being said on our online platform. Our MPS scores are going in the right way. That to me is showing that not only are we training the carriers the right way, but that means we’re training our people the right way to handle those carriers long term.
Brent – 00:36:44:
Man, what great advice. So Freight Nation, if you’re in the brokerage side of the business, listen to what Drew just said. He just said, look, everything matters because the more relationship you build with your carriers, the more trusted relationship you build with them, the more they’re going to talk about, hey, NTG and TI, they’re great companies to work for. They’re great companies to haul freight for. And so then remember, this is the biggest, smallest industry in the world where everybody’s communicating with each other. And certainly with social media today, that’s an absolute fact. All right, Drew, let’s close on this. So when you look at this industry and the ups and downs, you’ve been through a couple of them. You were through the The Great Recession. You were through ELDs. You were through the market in 2013. You were at the 2018 ELD marketplace. You went through the pandemic. You’ve seen ups and downs. So what’s your advice to somebody managing a brokerage through sort of the ups and downs of being a U.S. Freight transportation provider?
Drew – 00:37:33:
That’s a loaded question right there. I always get asked the question, hey, Drew, why don’t you start your own brokerage? My answer very simply is that. You better have. 15, 20 million bucks today. It’s much different in the day of age today than it was 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago, in my opinion. I think of it just as how you said, Brent, you just went through a whole gamut of like different eras and different intervals that went up and down. And that’s the thing is markets are going to come and go, right? The whole bears win, bulls wins, but pig gets slaughtered, right? You’re going to have the ups and downs, right? And what I’ve always noticed in brokerage is you can be a bear, you can be a bull, and you can still win. There’s a thousand different ways to look at it. How you run a brokerage operation. So for me, I think it’s having that long standing strategy. Too many people, like here’s an example, right? We’ve been in a freight recession for the last two years. So now guess what everybody does from a brokerage leadership level? They question, does everybody work hard? They question their processes. They start questioning the SOPs. They start questioning, are people calling customers enough? They start questioning the people on day to day. They start questioning the leadership. But you know what? It was funny to me and what I told a lot of brokerage friends in the industry, that leadership, that broker, that system, that worked pretty well in 21, 22. Didn’t that? What changed so much? And so don’t get me wrong. Not everything is market dependent. There’s a lot of things that you can do outside of that, especially if you’re a smaller company, because you can grow through some of that. But making sure that you’re staying true to your fundamentals and being consistent, having that same approach, not looking at shiny toys and getting excited and going to that, not hearing what other brokerage do. Here’s an example. You come out of 21, 22. I can’t tell you how many brokerage started wanting to try to do drayage. And then they realized real quickly.
Brent – 00:39:08:
Tough mark.
Drew – 00:39:10:
The radius not the same as doing a full truckload, right? There’s so much more intricacy that goes through that. And so staying core to what your true plan is and making sure that you’re not just grabbing something that is hot at the time.
Brent – 00:39:21:
Yeah. Well, I tell you what, to close out your quote, that’s the old pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Yeah. Always make sure you’re fair to who you’re working with. And that’s the principle of that statement, man. What a great statement to end on. I tell you what, Freight Nation, you just heard from a real sincere, honest, character-driven guy. And the marketplace, he really has spent his time doing what he said, which was he spent a lot more time listening than he did talking. He did a lot more time in understanding how people tick, whether it’s the carrier, whether it’s the manufacturer where you’re trying to get freight from, whether it’s the team and staffs that he works with. He spent his time listening. And man, true listening always pays off because people know that you appreciate them. And Drew, I know that this industry appreciates you. And I know the people that work with you appreciate you. I appreciate my friendship with you. And so thank you so much for being on Freight Nation today.
Drew – 00:40:13:
Now, likewise, Brent, I’ve always appreciated your dedication. Always appreciate your friendship. You’ve been a real loyal friend in this industry. So I really appreciate you having me on today.
Brent – 00:40:21:
Well, man, it’s an honor. It’s an absolute honor. All right. We’re Freight Nation. That’s a wrap. You just heard from one of the best in the industry. Don’t forget, it’s like we like to say at Freight Nation all the time. Don’t forget to work hard, to be kind, and to stay humble. We’ll catch you the next time, Freight Nation.
Outro – 00:40:36:
On behalf of the Truckstop team, thanks for listening to this episode of Freight Nation. To find out more about the show, head to truckstop.com forward slash podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you hit subscribe so you don’t miss any future episodes. Until then, keep on trucking and exploring the open roads with Freight Nation, a trucking podcast.
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