Episode 53: Overcoming Challenges in Freight...

Brent – 00:00:01:

Welcome to Freight Nation: A Trucking Podcast where we explore the fascinating world of trucking and freight management. We dive deep into the freight industry and uncover why the trucking industry is more crucial to our country now than ever before. Stay tuned to uncover the driving forces behind successful trucking businesses and hear from the hardworking truckers and leaders who keep the world moving. Let’s hit the road. Well, welcome back, Freight Nation. Man, am I glad you joined me today for another edition of the Freight Nation podcast by truckstop.com. Appreciate you dialing in and joining us on the video part of this any and every time because, I know you’ve got a lot of things that you can do with your time, and it’s always Truckstop’s endeavor to want to bring you the bright minds and the best ideas in the marketplace so you can grow your business. That’s our goal. Our hope is that you’re always successful and that we do everything we can to help you with that. So thanks again for joining us on Freight Nation today. We’ve got a great episode of Freight Nation. Today, I’m going to give you some perspective. All right? And perspective usually means you’re going to hear from somebody who’s been in the industry a long time, which is really great because perspective, as I’ve gotten older, I know perspective helps me make the most important thing, which is a wise decision. So you’re going to get to hear from somebody that’s been in this industry right at 30 years. They actually were in the industry before Truckstop became a product, which is really pretty cool. Now, all that means is you’re going to hear a great story. You’re going to hear a great perspective. And I promise you, because I’ve seen the notes. And I’ve talked to him already. And you’re going to hear about some really great things that you can bring to your business that may help fundamentally grow your business. So get ready, Freight Nation. We’re going to get started up with this one right away. Man, joining me today is Mr. Steve Cox, the president of Steam Logistics out of one of my favorite cities, Chattanooga, Tennessee. So, Steve, thanks for joining us on Freight Nation today.

Steve – 00:01:44:

Man, thank you for having me. Such a privilege to be here.

Brent – 00:01:47:

Well, man, I know you have a lot to do. You’re growing one of the fastest-growing 3PLs in the United States and doing a fantastic job at it. I know you’ve got a lot going. So I really appreciate you being open to talking to the Freight Nation watchers and listeners and just helping this industry. And it’s one of the things. I don’t know if you, Steve, I know you’ve been doing this a long time. I’m 27 years. You’re right at 30 years. So I know that, for me, one of the things I love about freight transportation and the trucking industry in general is that everybody just really wants to help each other. And we’re competitive. So is that one of the things that drives you in the market?

Steve – 00:02:18:

Yeah, I think that’s very true. And I think people would be surprised at how much talking is going on between competition in this industry. I mean, I have really good friends that arrive. I have what I feel is a good friend at TQL with Ken Oakes. And to be able to bounce things off of people that have been in the industry a long time and kind of know what’s going on, it is nice. So yeah, I think people would be really surprised with how much is being talked about behind the scenes with the competition in the industry.

Brent – 00:02:44:

Right. As I like to remind people that are in freight, this is a trillion dollar, yes, I said trillion dollar industry. And there’s plenty of room for people to make their success and their careers inside of it. And one of the great things is we have all these people in trucking that really just want to help others be successful. Now look, when it comes down to it, competition is competition and where you play to win, I know that. So before we get started in your history of this or your experience in this marketplace, I want to know something. So when there was little Steve, when he was just like five and six years old, what did Steve dream about that he wanted to be when he became an adult?

Steve – 00:03:19:

I think that I wanted to be a police officer. You know how it is when you’re young, but I quickly realized as I got older that jobs like a police officer or a teacher would not be in the cards for me just because I have no patience. I would tase someone. I mean, somebody would just look at me cross-eyed and I’d probably tase them. So there’s no way I could be a police officer or a teacher. I just don’t have the patience.

Brent – 00:03:41:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got it. It’s amazing how many young kids want to do things and serve others. Policemen, firemen, teachers, people like that. It’s amazing how- Absolutely. And then we transition out to going, wait a minute, there’s a bigger platform out there maybe that I want to play on.

Steve – 00:03:53:

Yeah, well, I have a ton of respect for those individuals. I couldn’t do it myself. There’s no way.

Brent – 00:03:56:

Oh my goodness. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Heroes. Those are the people that do those types of jobs. We’re just the ones trying to help the United States continue to move forward. All right. So before you got into training, where did you grow up? What’s the foundation and what was your family dynamic?

Steve – 00:04:11:

Well, I grew up in central Minnesota.

Brent – 00:04:13:

Central Minnesota.

Steve – 00:04:14:

Yeah, that’s almost halfway to Canada from Minneapolis. About five hours to Canada from Minneapolis. I was pretty much smack in the middle of that. So really the middle of nowhere, a beautiful place to grow up. But I mean, we just really didn’t have anything growing up. So we grew up poor. And so I think that really shaped me as I went through high school. And at high school graduation, I just, I knew I had to go to college. I had to get a degree if I was going to, and I don’t want to say get out of there, but like be able to get a job in the big city. And so like, I just think I’m thankful for growing up with nothing, to be honest. And I just don’t think that I would have had the motivation I did if I had a lot of things handed to me. So that was the dynamic growing up. And that continued all the way to graduation. I mean, we were on welfare from as long as I can remember. Looking back, it was a good thing for me personally.

Brent – 00:04:58:

Do you think that helped you with a perspective towards others and how you treated others or how you wanted to be treated and those sort of things? Because when you’re the president of a company of 900 people, there’s influences that you’re trying to create with people. So how do you think that affected you as far as like how you treated others?

Steve – 00:05:14:

Yeah, I think that you can be very genuine when you grow up that way. Until about sixth grade, I was in a trailer park and obviously welfare, even after my parents divorced when I was in sixth grade and I had with my father and we went to my grandfather’s house and very small house, still on welfare all the way through. But just to have that perspective and to be able to say, listen, when you’re leading people and you’re trying to get them to do something here, we’re trying to get them to do something for themselves. And so it’s like, hey, I’d like to see you change your life financially because this industry was something that allowed me to do that. So I really do like that perspective to be able to really talk to people and relate with everyone as you lead people when it comes at, you know what I mean? And so I really like to be able to talk about that with people.

Brent – 00:05:56:

Well, for sure. Yeah. When we’re transparent about who we are and where we came from, it untethers you to things that would hold you down. And so I see that. You see that across the board. You and I have been doing this a long time and you see this across the board. And so Freight Nation, pay attention to what Steve’s saying here, because this is important as you’re growing in your career, wherever you are inside of freight transportation, that the more in which you engage into the reality of your story, the more in which you can grow it, where it doesn’t hold you down or hold you back or those sort of things, you just end up, you embrace it and you move forward on it. And then I think probably Steve, as we get into this, I’d love for you to get into the operational questions on things that you talk a little bit about how that helps you work with the 900 partners that you’ve got at Steam and stuff. So, but before we get into those operational questions, I do want to make sure we talk about those because those are like the payoff for the Freight Nation watchers and listeners where they can take things and bring them back into their businesses. I want people to hear. You got into freight? Because yours is a legendary story. The places that you worked at and came from. So where did you start out in the freight marketplace? And then tell the story on how you get all the way to Steam. Because it’s such a great story because it gives such great perspective.

Steve – 00:07:04:

It is very. It’s so funny how fate leads you in different directions, right? If you just made one decision that was different, I wouldn’t be sitting in front of you today and multiple single decisions along the way to be where I’m at today with Steam. But I was fortunate. I went to St. Cloud State University, which is in central Minnesota. Also, we have a lot at Access America. At least once we got there, we had a lot of people from St. Cloud State that came in. And I’ll elaborate a little bit more why I think that is later. But like I went there and it had a very good business program to four years there. And listen, I didn’t know what 3PL, like third-party logistics I had no idea what that was. Who would know that? No, no idea. I didn’t even know what it. Was. Literally, I got through college and didn’t know what it was. But my counselor at St. Cloud State said, hey, I know someone at C.H. Robinson down in Minneapolis and they’re looking for people. And so I went down and interviewed. And again, I know I interviewed again, five or six people. I could tell you that I might not have hired myself. I mean, at that time, I was like, there’s no way I would have hired me at that at 22 years old. No chance. I was just fortunate enough to, I guess, get through the process and get hired at C.H. Robinson in early 95. And it was just really fortunate because at that time, C.H. was a billion and a half. And it wasn’t 22 billion or 16 billion, whatever it is now. But it was still entrepreneurial. It’s still very and I don’t know now. And I’ve been gone from there for 20 years, but at the time, very entrepreneurial. So you’re getting that feel. And I think that’s real important in this industry is that you have that entrepreneurial drive in a lot of cases. So I was fortunate to grow up in that there. And so it was eight years total at C.H. Robinson. And so it was such a great training. And I know that C.H. has a lot of legacy people out there running other companies. And we need to know the whole family tree and someone that maybe after I retire, you get into like write a book and like do the family tree. And it would just be really neat for the industry in particular. And so I took a transfer at C.H. Robinson to the Nashville office because at the time there was a Quebecois printing plant in Clarksville, Tennessee that I ran. And so they wanted me to go to the branch office closest, which was Nashville. And that gave me another unique perspective, the brand, because I was at the corporate headquarters at C.H. for a while. So I got that perspective. And then off to the branches where it’s even more entrepreneurial. And so I was fortunate to do that. And we had a warehouse in Nashville where I had four trucks that just drove around. I had C.H. Robinson on their shirt and we picked up a ton of partials and then we consolidated and sent them out on multi-scope loads.

Brent – 00:09:25:

So you were consolidating partials back in like?

Steve – 00:09:29:

Like 99?

Brent – 00:09:30:

Yeah, 99. Oh, wow. Okay. Wow. That’s something that people are trying to do today. They’re trying to solve that problem today. That’s amazing.

Steve – 00:09:37:

It was neat because I just came up with this per skid rate. It was two skids to 20. And at 20, you can turn them sideways and I can get 30 and a 53 with a 40 by 48, right. So I, even at 20 skids, my rate was going to crush everyone. They couldn’t do truckload at that rate. 15 people were sending them half empty. And so we brought in about 3,500 truckloads a year and sent out about 2,500 multi-stops annually. So it was a neat little business and we did it from scratch. So I had to learn how to run a business cold call to collections. Right. And so that really taught me a ton about just building a business from scratch within a monster billion and a half dollar company. And they allowed that. So I’m very thankful to C.H. and my time there to learn the industry and to have the opportunity to do it again on my own later on. That was a neat phase. And after C.H., I ended up at Super Value, which is now UNFI for a year in their transportation department.

Brent – 00:10:30:

So while you’re transitioning your career from C.H. to another company, what was that pivotal thing that you went, okay, it’s time to move to the next phase?

Steve – 00:10:38:

Well, yeah, we just had a baby in Nashville and our whole family was in Minnesota. So, you know, the big push was to go back to Minnesota. So we ended up going back. And so I found a job. That was really the motivation. It wasn’t anything mind blowing or anything like that. I just needed to find another job. Yeah, we ended up back in Minnesota and that worked out really well with UNFI. And I learned a lot on the customer side there. And then I ended up at Target for a year at their transportation department in downtown Minneapolis. And when I was at Target, I was responsible for the California zone. So there’s like five zones in the U.S. for Target. And one was California because they had so much freight originating, domestic freight originating from California and all the imports coming in. So that was great experience also. And little did I know, eventually I would need that at Steam.

Brent – 00:11:20:

So were you helping to run logistics for Target? Is that your responsibility? Oh, wow.

Steve – 00:11:24:

Yeah, just the California zone. So I got to fly out a few times and I was 32, 33 years old and I was still just learning so much, just soaking so much in. And being on the customer side was a unique experience for a couple of years. I thought that was helpful.

Brent – 00:11:36:

Right. So you’re continuing to build your experience in multiple levels. Obviously, you’ve worked with what is known now as the largest 3PL in the world, the C.H. Robinson. Then you went to UNFI and then you went to Target. And so you’re continuing to build your foundation in transportation. What advice would you give to the Freight Nation watchers and listeners on like building a foundation like that?

Steve – 00:11:58:

Yeah, I think it’s great advice. And I tell this to the young people all the time, especially when I was at Access America and now, that when you come into a job, please don’t think you’re wasting your time. Like I tell people all the time, you are not wasting your time here. If you stay at Steam for two years or at Access America or wherever, for two years, and you decide to go somewhere else and do something else, the one thing no one can take from you is that experience that you’ve gained. And now you’re more marketable somewhere else. So when people come in and like, oh, I hate this job, and give it a couple of years and just learn and soak it in, you’re not wasting your time because those are experiences that you’re going to be able to build your foundation for your launching pad. And those are just every little thing, even though some of them I didn’t love and trudge into work every day, but those things helped me a ton to build the foundation to be able to do more.

Brent – 00:12:45:

Right, yeah. I used to have a CEO that would say, bloom where you’re planted. Yeah. And so it is, it’s like make something out of it. Make something out of where you are because you’re going to take that to your next location. And it can either be a strategic advantage to you or you can have wasted it. It’s up to you. All right, so you’re at Target. You’re dealing with the West Coast. So what was the fundamental gain with dealing with, obviously, one of the states that has such an influence over all the other 49 states?

Steve – 00:13:12:

I mean, I’d never had that experience before. So I was a routing analyst in California. So I would route freight, normally single picks or maybe two picks. And then the destination, it was just going to their distribution centers. But the import part was a big deal too because we had the deconsolidation facilities that brought in all the imports and then everything went to the DCs. But it was funny because we called shippers all the time and beat them up and they were banging on their phones and trying to get in. And then I had that experience for a year where everybody’s calling me and trying to get the door. And so I understand where the shippers are coming from, getting bought all the time. And it was nice to have that for once because out of 30 years, one has been spent with somebody trying to kiss my backside to get in the door instead of me and the other way around, so.

Brent – 00:13:54:

Well, a few people in trucking have, and that’s a good thing. Well, they can say, I know what it feels like. Yeah. So that’s fantastic. All right. So you’re at Target, you’re handling all the outbound freight for them and getting it to your DCs and all the different things that go on. And so now how long were you at Target?

Steve – 00:14:11:

Just a year.

Brent – 00:14:11:

It’s one year. And then, so something changed. You were like, okay, I got to get back to a different side of the business. So what necessitated that change? And then that took you to where?

Steve – 00:14:20:

Yeah. Well, Ted Alling, who founded Access America Transport, I worked with him at C.H. Robinson and he had started Access America 02. So it’d been going a couple, three years, but he was looking to start growing it. And so he asked me if I wanted to start an office in Minneapolis for Access American. At the time, Access was literally four or five people in Chattanooga and two in Birmingham. So there were like seven people in the company and it was about 5 million in sales or something like that.

Brent – 00:14:44:

You got me curious now. Hold on, man. Two in Southern Chattanooga, two in Birmingham. Now this is talking to a guy who grew up in Birmingham. That’s interesting. What was the connection to Birmingham?

Steve – 00:14:53:

I think that Ted just had some buddies in Birmingham. I mean, that’s, the theme of somewhere these branches are located. It’s the person, not the location. Right. And I would just happen to be, I guess if I was in Seattle, he would have called and I would have had a branch in Seattle. But I was fortunate enough. And at that time I was like, man, I’m 32, three years old. I’m like, if I’m ever going to take a chance in my whole life, it’s now. Like five years from now, seven years from now when I’m 40, there’s no chance I’m going to do that. So I got a mortgage and two kids and I’m going to have to make this happen. And fear is a great motivator.

Brent – 00:15:22:

Yeah, absolutely. All right. So your friend at Access America, who you made that connection at C.H. with, which is not uncommon. People in this industry have somebody, you know, and everybody always wants to work with somebody they know and that has quality and that they like and they trust. And so he got you to come to Access America and you opened up the office in Minneapolis. Is that correct?

Steve – 00:15:42:

Yeah. He said he can locate it wherever you want. So I was three miles from my house. And so I put that location right there. It was in Ramsey, Minnesota, which was an odd place to be. Well, that’s

Brent – 00:15:51:

fantastic. So your first time building your own office out, what were some of the immediate sort of like, you know, challenges that you had? And then what were a couple of the wins that you got? You went, oh, wow, I got to do more of that.

Steve – 00:16:00:

Yeah. I mean, when I sat down in that office, I hired a young guy out of college, just graduated. He’s actually still a Coyote today, which I think is a really cool thing. He’s 06 when we started. So he’ll be almost 20 years. He’s still there, which I think is a big accomplishment. And I sat down at the desk and I was like, I got a mortgage and two kids. And at C.H. Robinson, I wasn’t like banging out cold calls all day. I did some, but not like all day, every day. And so I was like, I sat down and just looked at the computer. There was no customers. Like here’s a computer and a phone and good luck. And so myself and the college kid next to me, we went to work. And the funny thing, people ask me questions about, well, how did the company grow? Like you’re asking, or how did some people say, how did you get where you’re at? Well, I got where I’m at because a lot of people have helped me get where I’m, you know what I mean? So that’s my opinion. But at that time it was like, I’ve got to do this. And so my advice to people is like, you’re going to have to be that crazy person that’s runs a hundred miles an hour into brick wall and just backs up and does it again. And you can’t care if somebody’s telling you to beat it. And then you see, start getting some wins. Right. And that was a big deal. And that’s intoxicating to be honest. And I thought when I started that office, if I ever got to like six people, I would be the best logistics person on earth if I had six people. Right. And so I just went hard and you have to establish a culture. Here’s what it takes. Here’s the expectation every day when you come to work and you got to establish that right away. If you don’t, it’s really hard to change that. People come into an environment where they’re used to one thing and you’re like, oh, well, we’ve got to do more of X. But if they walk in the door and there’s an expectation and they hear it all around them and there’s a culture, that’s a big difference maker. I think when you’re growing something from scratch. And another thing, like for me, I never had an office and I still don’t today. This is just a conference room that we use, but I’ve always sat in the middle of the floor. And that’s what, almost 30 years. And about 15 or 18 of those years have been in leadership position, but you don’t know what’s going on out there if you’re sitting back in an office. And so that’s a big difference maker. I think to be out there for my team, to hear me make cold calls at that time, for them to see me hustle all day long, to see me run across. If I’m going somewhere, I’m running because I just, I want to set the pace in the office, right? And at that time, so it was always like, and I don’t expect you to do it for 15 hours a day, do it your eight and get out of here. Right? So I just wanted to always show what the expectation was in the office every single day when you come to work. That was my big thing.

Brent – 00:18:19:

I’m writing this down. He said, if I was going anywhere, I was running.

Steve – 00:18:22:

I run to the bathroom. It’s not because I had to go really bad. I’m hustling.

Brent – 00:18:25:

It sounds a little bit like Forrest Gump, but who doesn’t love Forrest Gump, right? Yeah. So you’re building out Access America. You said if you got to six, you would have thought, oh my gosh, I’ve accomplished everything. How long did you manage at Access America? And then what’d you grow it to?

Steve – 00:18:39:

So from 06, when we started the office to 2013, when we sold Coyote Logistics. So about seven years. In Minneapolis, we had zero, two people when I started. But when we sold to Coyote in 2013, there was, I think, about 150 in the office. And we were doing about 220 million in sales in Minneapolis. So that was about, a lot of people don’t know it, but it was about 42 or 3% of Access America was the Minneapolis office because, Access was based in Chattanooga and it was a Chattanooga story. But almost half the sales were in Minneapolis, which a lot of people don’t know. And that’s fine. But it was really neat to be a part of something that so few people get to do that. From two people in a room to 150. So few get the privilege of going and being a part of something like that.

Brent – 00:19:23:

You’re so right. I’ve been so fortunate to be a part of two big functional parts of transportation. One, I was on the media side with Overdrive magazine and every carrier in America knows Overdrive magazine. And then to join Truckstop, a foundational part of how freight moves. I mean, I’ve been so, so fortunate to be in areas where there’s a focal point of interest. And so Freight Nation, listen to what Steve’s saying. When he says he got to be a part of something unique. When I started in this marketplace, it was 2013. The year Access sold the Coyote. All right. So I’m brand new in the market and I’m out talking to people at different shows and different things. And all I hear about is all these guys at Access America who had done such cool things that they were so great at what they did. They got to sell the Coyote. And so I thought it was super cool because even today, and I’ve been doing this for 11 years, I still run into people that were like, well, I was at Access America. And what we did at Access America. So you hear this, Steve, over. And the thing I want the Freight Nation. Freight Nation watchers and listeners to take away from this is it’s fun to be a part of a winning team. It really is. And I know that’s a big part of how you run all of your operations is so much focus on fun and enjoyment. So, and I do want to talk about that in a minute. So I want to go all the way through. So you got to 2013, you sold out to Coyote and you retired and decided to sit on the beach, right?

Steve – 00:20:38:

I mean, I should have. I didn’t own a ton of it, but I own some. And so really didn’t have to work anymore, to be honest. Like. Like all I’ve ever done my whole life is get up and go to work every morning. So.

Brent – 00:20:49:

Cause you love it.

Steve – 00:20:50:

Yeah. I mean, I really do. And I love seeing people develop.

Brent – 00:20:53:

That’s the best part.

Steve – 00:20:55:

People like buy a new house or a new car. Like I really love that. And they earned it. They’ve earned it. And so I think that’s really cool. And so about six months before we sold to Coyote, I decided I wanted no part of working for Coyote. Nothing against Coyote. They’re a great company, but I just, we grew that thing from nothing. And I was like, well, we’re being bought. We’re their company now. And I just didn’t, I wasn’t something that I wanted to be a part of.

Brent – 00:21:17:

Entrepreneurs rarely like to go to the buying company. They like to do what entrepreneurs do. They like to start something new again. I’m so glad you talked about that. Talk a little bit about what was in your mind when you’re like, okay, we’re going to sell. Obviously there’s a sad part of that. There’s a joyful part of that, but there’s also a real inspiring part of that where you’re like, oh, I get to go start something new. So talk a little bit about that for the Freight Nation Watchers and let’s just like, what’s going through your mind on that? Cause this is like, most people don’t get to hear a story like this. And they certainly don’t get to hear somebody’s like, what’s going inside their head. What are they thinking? Cause you’ve obviously transitioned to something and created more success. And so talk a little bit about that to the Freight Nation watchers and listeners.

Steve – 00:21:58:

Yeah, I’ll say this. What was in my mind is I was pretty sure I was going to get fired by Coyote because I’d be running my mouth about some account that is going to go to Coyote instead of, all right, but that is some of that, but like, you’re right. And at that time, Steam Logistics had, it was just started. We just started Steam as part of Access America. We thought, oh, it’ll be so easy to sell the free forwarding. It’s going to be so easy because we’ll just do everything we did at Access. We were very wrong, by the way.

Brent – 00:22:24:

I said, that’s a different beast.

Steve – 00:22:26:

Nobody’s starting freight forwarders. Nobody. That’s not happening. There’s no chance of that. We’re not worried about that because it’s not fun. I’ll just, I’ll be frank. Very difficult. So at that time, I was just, you crave growth. There wasn’t a month we didn’t beat the record from the month before. Wow. And I know it sounds, you’re going to think I’m lying.

Brent – 00:22:45:

Oh, I know you’re not lying because from 95 to 2021, the freight transportation industry, grew by at least, and notice I say at least 10% year over year. So if you’re doing the right things and hustling, you’re growing. Yeah. We were

Steve – 00:23:04:

very fortunate in that regard. So just that transition over, we started Steam as just the international arm of Access America, thinking we had 500 brokers in the company. They can sell international too. And then when we sold the Coyote, they had no interest in an international piece and certainly wouldn’t have had the patience that you would have needed and that we didn’t know at the time. So jumping over that is weird. I started making 80 cold calls a day again, and it’s 23. I was like, what am I doing? But that was part of it. And I ended up moving to Chattanooga in 2014 because everybody’s down here. And so we had about eight people, but there was really no sales going into the company. They were still setting up the Nvocc and the IATA and the authority to put freight on planes. And there’s a lot that it takes to set everything up regulatory wise. And so when I got down here, it was like, okay, how are we going to make money? And I’ll be honest, four years from 14 to 18 really failed. We grew a little, right? We grew from 7 to 12 million to 16 million, you know what I mean? Over those years, in my opinion, I’d get up in the morning and be like, okay, there’s no path to profitability here. And at the time we had a seven-year non-compete with Coyote, we couldn’t do domestic. So we had to burn the ships and go all in on freight forwarding and figure it out. If we didn’t, you can wait seven years and do domestic again. And who’s going to do that? So seven-year non-compete sounds crazy. We didn’t negotiate it. Trust me, I didn’t.

Brent – 00:24:22:

That is a really long non-compete.

Steve – 00:24:23:

It’s not something that we would have negotiated if you only had the percent we did, but the owners did that and that’s fine. And when I look back on it, I don’t want to say I’m thankful because I whine about it a lot, but if you really think about it and put it in perspective, we had to figure forwarding out. We had to do it or the business is going to fail. So it took three or four years to really figure out how to do it and do it right and do business with the right customers. And it wasn’t Access America anymore. We can’t just pick up a customer that does one load per year and be successful. That’s great. One load, fine. We can pick it up and deliver it. But in international, that’s not how it works. And so we had a lot of learning to do. And fortunately enough, we figured that out over those four years. And then later on, we got into Drayage as a standalone product. And that product really took off for us because we had to deliver our containers all the way through. So that’s blown up for us.

Brent – 00:25:11:

Drayage is another super hustle business though, right?

Steve – 00:25:14:

No doubt about it. Yeah. And people think that’s easy now. And we’ve seen competitors that have started Drayage departments and closed them because it is very difficult. And so we were fortunate, because we saw Drayage from a different perspective. We had the domestic background, which is like cover freight at all costs. And you’ve got to get it out and you’ve got to make sure your customer’s happy. And when they expect it picked up, you pick it up. And then we combine that with our newfound knowledge of international. And that’s when you can really do well in Drayage and figure that out. And we think right now we’re probably the second largest Drey brokers in the country. And so that really picked up. And then 21, our non-compete burned off at Access. And so we started the domestic product here. And what a perfect time to started domestic brokerage.

Brent – 00:25:54:

Say that again, which year did it?

Steve – 00:25:56:

It was April of 21. So it was, I mean, there couldn’t have been a better time.

Brent – 00:25:59:

Was the market on fire then?

Steve – 00:26:01:

I mean, it just- don’t look at me and give me credit. We’re just fortunate timing and things have worked out really well. And so we went from in 2019, we did 33 million in sales at Steam. And this year, we’ll probably do about 600 million in sales. But we’ve had that tick up to like in 2022, we did 767 million. And then last year, we did 583. And this year, 612. We’ve also gone through that along with the rest of the industry. And so that’s where we stand today on sales.

Brent – 00:26:29:

Yeah. So you’ve managed through so many different transitions as I look at this. So Freight Nation, this is what I’m saying here about Steve’s. Just pay attention to how he’s pivoted. Because in life, you’re going to get lots of opportunities. It’s how you pivot towards them, through them, around them sometimes. But it’s interesting how he built a foundation with CH, UNFI, and Target, developed critical success at Access America, and yet still only had like a small part of that ownership. And now with Steam, you serve as the president of Steam. You have 900 employees. You guys really kicked this thing off. You had to navigate through almost destruction.

Steve – 00:27:09:

Yeah, there’s no doubt.

Brent – 00:27:10:

Trying to learn the freight forwarding. But it was either learning the freight forwarding business or just close the doors. And my guess is, if I know most of the people in freight transportation, giving up is not usually a description they describe themselves as. So you weren’t going to give up. You got all the way through that. And then you got to Steam Logistics, which is now doing fantastic. 900 partners there with you there. Just describe the model of Steam. Is it an agent model? Is everybody an employee model? How does that work? And then I want to talk about, I want to spend the last 12 minutes you talking about some of the unique ways you go about leading your fellow partners there at Steam. So talk about your model. Then I want to ask a few questions about that, because this is going to be the best part, Freight Nation. This will be the best part. Steve, talk to me about that.

Steve – 00:27:50:

Well, I appreciate that. And at Steam, we probably have one of the most unique offerings in the industry, because you’ve got the freight forwarding piece, the drayage piece, the domestic piece, obviously, we have LTL Intermodal.

Brent – 00:28:00:

Yeah, that’s unique. You have options there.

Steve – 00:28:02:

You’re either one or the other in this industry. And anyone that’s in domestic only and they want to start freight forwarding, I would recommend against it. Not because we’re going to compete against you. That’s fine. I don’t mind competition, but just the pain in the rear that it is. And especially if you’re not well-versed in it, you better buy a little forwarder or something because, yeah. So we’re structured where we have an international department. Our drayage brokerage is on our first floor in Chattanooga. They’re down there, all little entrepreneurs. And our domestic, we’ve got eight branches in the U.S. and here in Chattanooga, each person that comes in to work is an entrepreneur. They have an opportunity to do very well for the input that they have in to get out. And so it’s really unique. I can put an international brokers, a domestic brokers, and a dray brokers on the same call with a customer, which most people can’t do. We think about nobody’s adding capacity right now in the market, right? So it’s very difficult to sell and get in the door. And so when you have something else compelling to talk about, and we’re very fortunate to be able to do that. And so there aren’t many things that a customer can say, hey, there’s no way you can help us. You know what I mean? We can say, yeah, what about customs clearance? We can help you do that. There’s just a million different things that we can help with in the industry. And so we feel like we’re in a very unique position to sell business in all of our different areas.

Brent – 00:29:10:

Right. And certainly that sounds like you are. All right. Well, let me ask this question real quick. How does scale help you in the market? You talked about you have multiple offerings to help, but scale is another story because a lot of people have multiple offerings, but they may be on the smaller business side. How does scale help you when you’re working with customers?

Steve – 00:29:28:

I think it helps in a few ways. Name recognition is like, even at Access America, when we were a half a billion, I would call a customer like, who are you? And I think that LinkedIn has helped us a ton. I’ve had large brands, Fortune 500 companies tell me that they see my videos online and they’re not even our customer. And so just having our brand out there and we post things that are about our culture and our people and how we operate. And then just having brand recognition when somebody accidentally picks that phone up at a shipper and they’re like, I shouldn’t have picked, I accidentally picked up. Now I got to talk to you. And they actually recognize your brand. That’s your foot forward than most other people. And maybe they’ll listen for a few minutes because they, okay, I’ve heard of Steam and they seem to have a fun environment or whatever. But so that helps. I think scale helps a ton there. Obviously scale when it comes to, when you start having some profitability. Now we’ve been looking into systems to help us become more efficient because you just have to around some of that. So we’re really starting to do some of that because you’ve seen some of these companies go from six, 700 million to multi-billions. And it’s because they’ve developed some internal systems to help them become a lot more efficient. So we focus a lot on that. And having scale means you have a lot smarter people on staff than this guy, because I’m never the smartest guy in the room. That’s a fact every single time. And again, I’ll ram my head into the wall a bunch of times and back up and do it again, but you start bringing in some real minds. And that’s really helpful with scale. And when you’re small, you can’t do that. You are what you are. And so there are a lot of advantages to having scale. Now, the thing I try to guard against is I love being in a room with two people, right? So I try to keep that culture as close as you can, but it’s not as easy when you have a hundred people on the floor, like we do here.

Brent – 00:31:04:

Yeah. Well, what I’m taking away from what you’re saying here is always be a brand ambassador for your company. And in today’s world where you can distribute it broad and wide via the internet and the different social media platforms, you’re able to really brand yourself, whether you’re a small $25 million company, or you’re a multi-billion dollar company, always be branding yourself. One of your leadership techniques or the way in which you go about things is that you don’t take things so seriously. I think, do you call it loosening the collar? How is that sort of part of your culture? And I just say this about leadership, because usually most people don’t know it. It’s just like everything in life. When you get to be an adult person, you look back and look at your parents and realize, well, they were just figuring it out along the way. Now, and so as a leader of a very successful company, and you’ve been doing this a long time, this isn’t your first rodeo. So how does like loosening the collar and saying like being yourself, how does that relate into how you lead the teams that you work with?

Steve – 00:32:00:

Yeah, I think skipping the ego is a bit, I mean, when you’re young, the ego is just, it’s such a factor in everything you do. And I get that. And I need, everybody still has an ego as they get older. But I’ll say this. One of the funniest stories around Steam is our current CEO, Jason Provancha started with us in 2015. He came over from Coyote and I sat him down in a room. At that time, I was the CEO of the company, right? I CEO and COO. I don’t know. There’s probably 10 titles I had, whatever. But I sat down in a room and I was like, okay, you’re going to be CEO. He’s like, what? I was like, yeah, I’m not a CEO. I’m not going to be the face of a company. That’s not what I’m good at. I hope that I’m decent at leading salespeople and doing that, but I’m not a CEO. And he goes, are you serious? I was like, yeah, I’m sure you’d be CEO. Like there was 12 people there at the time. I don’t care. And then we hired a CEO and I was like, yeah, go ahead. I don’t care. Like it. And I think that’s a big deal. I think it being the ego, everybody get on the right seat in the bus that changes everything. And we have our executive team. It’s just, it’s a neat thing because the ego is, very light and things move forward faster. And people are really, the goal is to grow the company and see people do well. That’s it. It’s not about me. And I think that hopefully that answers your question.

Brent – 00:33:08:

Yeah, no, you did. Absolutely. I love where you talked about putting others’ interests first, putting their needs first, and there’s nothing better than helping someone else create success for themselves or where they can repeat it. Then your legacy is maybe five other companies that will carry the message forward. All right. So obviously we’ve gone through a little bit of a challenging market the last 24 months where things have corrected and come back to normal. How does that approach of bringing everybody along, having everybody in the same boat, everybody feeling like they matter with their input matters, their effort matters, everything. How has that helped you struggle through this? I don’t like to use the word adversity in this marketplace because it’s been just a normal marketplace, but it sure feels like that after the really great market we went through 2020 through 2022. So how have you guys taken that approach of, everybody’s in the same boat, helped you through these last 24 months?

Steve – 00:34:00:

Yeah, I think that’s an excellent question for anyone that’s survived. And that’s when we talk about ego, right? Because you said 900 employees. We have about 530 now. Like we had 900 at our peak. It’s 530 now. And so we’ve had to manage through some poor performers and we had some things. And frankly, when there’s nobody making any commission, people quit, right? So we’ve had to bring that down. And you better have a low ego there because you go from 767 million in sales down to 583. You better be worried about just making sure your business is in a good position. And that’s what we’ve really done over the last couple of years. We’ve done some really hard work getting our business in a position where if this market sticks this way for the next two years, we’re fine. It’s not great, but we are going to persevere at any market downturns. We’ve got ourselves in a really good position. And I think that’s good advice. You’ve got to do the hard things. And we’ve seen some companies go belly up, especially in third party and when brokers seeing a brokers go bankrupt is rare. And I’d never really seen it before the last couple of years. And so you’ve got to react quickly. And sometimes it’s really hard work to get yourself in a good position business-wise, but you have to do it.

Brent – 00:35:04:

All right. I want to ask you this one more serious question. Then I want to ask you kind of a fun question. All right. So talk about the importance of the pivot. In other words, how quickly you move from a situation that’s not going the direction you want it to one you think is going to take you the direction you want to go. Talk about the importance and power of that.

Steve – 00:35:23:

Yeah. I mean, it happened in a day. It was like January 12, 2022, or something like that. Right. I’ll never forget it. We had a class of 30 new brokers starting on Monday and it was Friday. And we’re like, oh, crap. I feel like we recognize it even a couple months late. Right. And so when you look back, you think that. But at that time, you’re like, oh, man, it’s time to pivot and pivot fast. The thing with that is a lot of people just avoid that or delay. And every minute you delay in that situation, it costs some people their company. And so just doing it, that’s the hardest thing. Realizing that something’s got to change. You better do it now or you might be in trouble later for us. We could have overnighted and just walked in and laid off 500 people. We did not want to do that. And that hurt profitability for 2023 for sure. But we did it the right way and have a softer landing and we were able to do that.

Brent – 00:36:10:

Right. Yeah. Well, I tell you that’s making a hard decision, especially one that affects other people’s livelihood is never easy, but there’s always a lot less pain, the faster that you make it. And this can be painful no matter what, because no one likes to interrupt someone else’s life, especially because in- But when you work with somebody, you become connected to them. I mean, regardless of the outcome leadership, sometimes you have to make a decision. It’s unpopular and you won’t be popular, but it doesn’t mean you don’t care about people. So, all right. So thank you. That is great advice about the power of the pivot, about how quickly do that. All right. So you and I talked a little bit about this and I’ve seen it out there. So your team challenged you to become a viral sensation. All right, out there. So they were like, they’re like, okay, Steve, you’re such a fun guy. We want you to help with the brand move forward. Everything about becoming a viral sensation. How. How have you embraced that and pushed it forward for the benefit of Steve and even the benefit of Steve?

Steve – 00:37:01:

Yeah, we’ve done a few things that we’re known for, right? And we’re only known for them because we push it on LinkedIn. Obviously, the gong videos, people beat them up. People love it. Some other people have done it. We’ve seen other people do it. And we’re happy that other people do it. You should celebrate a win with your people. And so we’ve tried to make up creative ways to do it. And we’ve had some crazy gong videos over time. But it’s all about celebrating your people. And we’ve taken a stand against non-competes. And that benefits us in no way. Steam Logistics, it doesn’t benefit us at all. It doesn’t benefit me personally. I would even argue it might hurt us a little bit. But to me, not having a non-compete is so important. Because again, I think I was talking to you before we were talking on the show. If somebody’s here for two years and they end up going somewhere else, that’s okay. We have to provide a situation where people want to stay. But if they want to go somewhere else, they can do that. And you can protect your business with a non-solicitation agreement. You protect your customers and your employees with non-solicits. And those are very enforceable. But non-competes are such a waste. And I think that it’s… You end up losing talent. And you have a great, talented young person. They get a better offer from another company that’s in a position that you’re not offering that person. And they have to turn it down because they can’t compete. They can’t go to a competing business for a year or two, which is really detrimental to young people. And one of the things that we found out is a lot of these agreements are signed when they’re onboarding. They don’t even have an idea what they’re signing. We thought it was very restrictive. So we took a stand on it. Unpopular in some cases, but others popular. And so we were well known for that. I had a half million hits on… On some post I made about growth one time. And then non-competes, we get a lot of hits on that. We’d like to see people be able to move freely within the industry. And it benefits us really in no way.

Brent – 00:38:42:

Right. Well, I am so glad that you brought the non-competing because I did want to talk about that. Because it’s unique. And I love the heart in it that you have, which is, look, if we’ve got a partner at Steam that gets an offer somewhere else that’s going to improve their life, we should be for that. And so we need to find a way to help make that happen. Because it doesn’t hurt Steam’s business. In other words, the back solicitation. Then let’s help them move into something that we at this time can’t offer them. Because in the end, I’ll be willing to bet that comes back to benefit Steam somewhere down the road.

Steve – 00:39:13:

Yeah. And even if it doesn’t, we just, I want to see young people be able to move around and they should have that ability. And I think that if we had a non-compete hanging over everyone in here, maybe they’d stay longer. But how satisfied would they be having to stick it out here until they get out of the industry? And then you lose talent to other industries. Because that can be a suck of talent out. If that industry doesn’t have a non-compete and then they’re able to grow in that one, good people are going to find a way to thrive in any industry. There’s no doubt about that.

Brent – 00:39:40:

I also think about, and I’d like to close on this one, just you talked about culture a lot. You talked about creating the right culture in this as a leader to help create that right culture because that creates the best results, the best output. So I would imagine that if you were to change your policy now in the non-competes, that would change your culture and therefore keep you guys from having the same momentum that you would have. Is that fair to say?

Steve – 00:40:00:

I think you’re right.

Brent – 00:40:00:

Well, Steve, man, this has been a lightning 45 minutes, man. I’ll tell you what. Freight Nation, I got a ton out of this. I hope you got out of this what I got out of it, which was to hear a perspective from somebody who’s been through from the beginning

Steve – 00:40:13:

Brent – 00:40:14:

really where the third part of logistics or brokerage industry was beginning to grow all the way through to the pinnacle of a career, which is where he’s helping others now increase the effectiveness of our industry by really being for what’s best for the growing of freight transportation. So I think I know you heard the heart in Steve in this, which is what’s really what Steam’s all about. So Steve, thank you so much for being on Freight Nation, man. It was just a joy to have you on.

Steve – 00:40:38:

It was my pleasure. I really appreciate you thinking of me.

Brent – 00:40:41:

Well, you’re welcome, Steve. And there you go, Freight Nation. I hope that this was a great podcast for you. I know it will be. If you’ll just replay it and replay it, listen to those principles that Steve was talking about, pivoting quickly, creating a right culture, being open to change. And even when things get freaking hard, figure out a way to create success because you can do it in this industry. And lastly, whatever you do, be running towards it. Always be running after it, no matter what. Well, Steve, thanks again for being on with us. And Freight Nation, that’s a wrap for today. I appreciate you joining us. And don’t forget, as we like to say at Freight Nation, to work hard, to be kind, and to stay humble. Thanks, Freight Nation. We’ll catch you the next time. On behalf of the Truckstop team, thanks for listening to this episode of Freight Nation. To find out more about the show, head to truckstop.com/podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you hit subscribe so you don’t miss any future episodes. Until then, keep on trucking and exploring the open roads with Freight Nation: A Trucking Podcast.